What is the Deen, System of Life, according to the Quran, and how and why is Islam a challenge to Religion?
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Dr. Shabbir
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:46 pm


Post by Dr. Shabbir »

Dear Mansoor Hallaj Sahib,

<<<Why did Persian Imams thought it necessary to collect ahadith? Because
there were tons of them circulating and were been quoted left right and
centre and they were being used and misused. >>>

This statement by Mubashir sahib is simply praising the work of the Persian
"imams"--concluding that had they not decided to sift falsehood from truth,
there would have been millions of false narrations today. I think you
grossly misunderstood Mubashir Sahib's comments. There was no need to post
long commentary about 49:13. I think most people today KNOW and UNDERSTAND
well what this verse means. May be people were not so educated at the time
of Ibn Katheer and Ibn Taymiyyah that they did not understand things as
simple as 49:13 from the Qur'an. This ignorance was monumental and it was
the product of their time. Literacy was just not a common commodity.

But, in my humble view, the Persian imams of the third century Hijrah should
have judged all the Hadithi circulating tales on the basis of Qur'anic truth
and consistency. They did not do that. They, instead, went the WRONG WAY
and embarked on a highly "unscientific" methodology--that of "Isnaad" (chain
of narrators). The Isnaad is basically hearsay—A pure hearsay—like A heard
from B, B heard from C, C heard from.........then, E, or F etc heard from
the Prophet (sws) while there were 4-6 or more people involved in the chain,
most of them dead and gone for many decades even centuries about which no
reasonable data could possibly be collected, nor their credibility and
trustworthiness could conceivably be verified. Ironically, this highly
primitive and unscientific method was called "Science of Hadith" by those
who simply didn't know the first thing about how "Science" works!

Mansoor Sahib, there is absolutely no such thing as "AUTHENTIC" hadith!
This is farce--a huge calumny and fabrication that has been perpetuated by
countless repetitions by people who later came to be known and revered as
the "Imams" and "Shuyukh-ul-Islam" and, of course, our very special breed of
"Islamic rabbis and priests"--the "Ulema-e-kiraam". They have even
self-titled themselves as "heirs of the Prophet" claiming this honor from
the Prophet himself. All “Ulema” the Sunni kinds, Wahabi, Deobandi, Ahl
Sunnah wal Jama’ah—and the Shi’a ayatollahs (well, they go way overboard in
self-titling business) are “heirs of the Prophets”, no matter what color and
hue of "Ulema" they are. You should look into 9:31, 34 to see an analogy of
these imams and ulema in the Jewish and Christian world--and, in fact, in
all other religions. Thus, a hadith can ONLY be "PROBABLY TRUE" if it is not
consistent with and supportive of the Qur'anic teachings but it can never be
"AUTHENTIC"! In order to be authentic, the Prophet (sws) and his companion
narrators either have to be alive so we can verify the truth of Prophet's
sayings, doings, and tacit approvals right from the primary sources, or,
there has to be strong and clear indications/pointers in the Qur’an as to
their works--which is what Hadith should have been. Because we are
commanded to follow 17:36 and 2:42 and shun falsehood at all costs and
because the Last Prophet of Islam (sws) and his noble companions passed away
more than 1400 years ago, all we can say a hadith is “it is probably

The "AUTHENTIC HADITH" is only the Qur'an as per itself:

45:6 Such are the Signs of Allah, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then
in what "HADITH" will they believe after Allah and His Signs?

39:23 Allah has revealed (from time to time) the most beautiful Message in
the form of a Book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in
various aspects): .....

Why is the Qur'anic hadith AUTHENTIC? You ask.

Well, this is because it is directly from Allah, the Most High, and Allah is always ALIVE and well!


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