Salam All,
I just read br Arnold article about Six Stages of Creation at http://19.org/index.php?id=91,415,0,0,1,0 ... One thing that bother me, is about the sequence of 41:10 and 41:11. Here ini Indonesia a lot of people make claim that Allah create earth first and later the whole universe based on 41:10-11 sequence.
How can you explain the sequence of 41:10-11 and the creation mention in br Arnold article?....
btw My personal understanding that those ayah talks about creation of earth alone, not the whole universe....
The Six Stages of Creation
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arista
- Posts: 18
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Arnold Yasin Mol
The Six Stages of Creation
Salaam Aleikum Arista,
This is indeed something I have heard before, but always by people who have poor knowledge of Arabic.
41:10 And He it is Who placed [....] who (invariably) need it.
41:11 THUMMA--Likewise, He it is [....]]] free will.
The word Thumma used in 41:11, is to link parallel statements with each other. This linking does NOT at all indicate a sequence of time, it has only the function to link statements of the same subject.
Thus Thumma can be translated with 'And', 'Likewise', 'After that', 'Also'. Indeed the Doctor has the correct choice of translation with 'likewise'.
Please tell this to people that the word Thumma is only a connecter of subjects, it doesn't refer to the right order of the subjects at all.
Also please read my new article on the stages of Creation:
The Stages of Creation & Evolution in the Quran
I will add my answer to the article.
This is indeed something I have heard before, but always by people who have poor knowledge of Arabic.
41:10 And He it is Who placed [....] who (invariably) need it.
41:11 THUMMA--Likewise, He it is [....]]] free will.
The word Thumma used in 41:11, is to link parallel statements with each other. This linking does NOT at all indicate a sequence of time, it has only the function to link statements of the same subject.
Thus Thumma can be translated with 'And', 'Likewise', 'After that', 'Also'. Indeed the Doctor has the correct choice of translation with 'likewise'.
Please tell this to people that the word Thumma is only a connecter of subjects, it doesn't refer to the right order of the subjects at all.
Also please read my new article on the stages of Creation:
The Stages of Creation & Evolution in the Quran
I will add my answer to the article.
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arista
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:49 am
- Contact:
The Six Stages of Creation
Salam Bro Arnold,
Thanks for your response.
"Thus Thumma can be translated with 'And', 'Likewise', 'After that', 'Also'."
But again the problem with them still exist cause they can insist Thumma = After That.
I have little knowledge of Arabic, so I still do not know how to answer their claim....
But again, thanks..
Thanks for your response.
"Thus Thumma can be translated with 'And', 'Likewise', 'After that', 'Also'."
But again the problem with them still exist cause they can insist Thumma = After That.
I have little knowledge of Arabic, so I still do not know how to answer their claim....
But again, thanks..
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Arnold Yasin Mol
The Six Stages of Creation
Salaam dear Arista,
They have 4 different translations of Thumma. They insist on the most illogical one that is disagreeing with scientific evidence. Then you cannot help or convince them. Because they don't want to be convinced. The Quran informs us to study the strucure of the Universe:
3:191 (Such men and women of understanding keep reflecting upon how Allah’s Laws operate in the Universe.) Standing, sitting, and reclining, they observe, and reflect upon Allah's creation of the Heavens and the Earth and wonder, "Our Lord! You have not created all this without Purpose. High Above You are from creating anything in vain! Save us, then, from being negligent in attaining knowledge and thus, getting condemned to Fire.” (When humans harness the forces of Nature and use them for the common good of all, they move away from Hell and close to Paradise in both lives 45:13-14).
And not to follow that which we have no proof of:
17:36 And you shall not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning. (And so, the insane and the disabled will have their incapacities taken into account in a court of law.)
And we are foretold we shall find the proofs in Nature:
3:190 Behold, in the creation of the Heavens and the Earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men and women who use their understanding.
We are told to study the creation of the Universe. But they reject any research and blindly hold on to their own conjecture.
6:25 Some of them pretend to listen to you, but Our Law has already veiled their hearts from understanding and caused deafness in their ears. Blind followers fail to believe even when they see all kinds of proofs. When they come to argue with you, they say about the Qur’an, "These are stories of the bygones."
In this way they use the Quran for their own wishes and make a mockery of the Quran:
31:6 But among people, there are those who invest their time in HADITH which is unfounded, so as to lead those without knowledge away from the Path of Allah, making mockery of it (the Qur'an). For such there is shameful punishment in store.
2:231....Do not make the Revelations of Allah a laughing stock.
They have 4 choices to make. And they only accept one, based on what?
Not on evidence, but on their own wishes. Leave these people alone Arista, these will only lead to baseless discussions. Also, I told you what the word means. They can't deny this, so that you don't speak Arabic is not the point here. It is there non-acceptance of other possibilities that is the point.
Spend your time on people who have a more open mind, these people are worth investing. Those other persons are not ready yet.
They have 4 different translations of Thumma. They insist on the most illogical one that is disagreeing with scientific evidence. Then you cannot help or convince them. Because they don't want to be convinced. The Quran informs us to study the strucure of the Universe:
3:191 (Such men and women of understanding keep reflecting upon how Allah’s Laws operate in the Universe.) Standing, sitting, and reclining, they observe, and reflect upon Allah's creation of the Heavens and the Earth and wonder, "Our Lord! You have not created all this without Purpose. High Above You are from creating anything in vain! Save us, then, from being negligent in attaining knowledge and thus, getting condemned to Fire.” (When humans harness the forces of Nature and use them for the common good of all, they move away from Hell and close to Paradise in both lives 45:13-14).
And not to follow that which we have no proof of:
17:36 And you shall not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning. (And so, the insane and the disabled will have their incapacities taken into account in a court of law.)
And we are foretold we shall find the proofs in Nature:
3:190 Behold, in the creation of the Heavens and the Earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men and women who use their understanding.
We are told to study the creation of the Universe. But they reject any research and blindly hold on to their own conjecture.
6:25 Some of them pretend to listen to you, but Our Law has already veiled their hearts from understanding and caused deafness in their ears. Blind followers fail to believe even when they see all kinds of proofs. When they come to argue with you, they say about the Qur’an, "These are stories of the bygones."
In this way they use the Quran for their own wishes and make a mockery of the Quran:
31:6 But among people, there are those who invest their time in HADITH which is unfounded, so as to lead those without knowledge away from the Path of Allah, making mockery of it (the Qur'an). For such there is shameful punishment in store.
2:231....Do not make the Revelations of Allah a laughing stock.
They have 4 choices to make. And they only accept one, based on what?
Not on evidence, but on their own wishes. Leave these people alone Arista, these will only lead to baseless discussions. Also, I told you what the word means. They can't deny this, so that you don't speak Arabic is not the point here. It is there non-acceptance of other possibilities that is the point.
Spend your time on people who have a more open mind, these people are worth investing. Those other persons are not ready yet.