Ritual prayer... debate

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Mahmood Qasmi
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Ritual prayer... debate

Post by Mahmood Qasmi »

Salaam uncle Shabbir and forum members

Well it suffices to say I cannot do justice with a question based on references from the aayaat. A gentleman has asked me regarding the Salaat and Yousuf Ali's translation, and has asked me how I think it is not talking about the 5-time daily prayer.

Fajr, Maghrib, Isha
11:114 And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night: For those things, that are good remove those that are evil: Be that the word of remembrance to those who remember (their Lord)

Dhuhar
2:238 Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer; and stand before Allah in a devout (frame of mind).

Maghrib and Fajr
17:78 Establish regular prayers - at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading: for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony.

Isha and Fajr
24:58 O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom

I have not gotten to the other verses, however, I did attempt to interpret 2:238 and here is my response.

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Mahmood:

حَفِظُوا عَلَى الصَّلَوَتِ وَالصَّلَوةِ الْوُسْطَى وَقُومُوا لِلَّهِ قَنِتِينَ
And it does not seem the least bit odd to you that the verses arround 2:38 seem to be structured around family/wife/Divorce/death-Will-for-family and all of a sudden the middle/Dhuhr salat comes in?? Unless the verse is expounding around the leading and trailing ideas? The preceding verses talk of Divorce, and the proceeding ones speak of widowing? What would be central to these concepts? What then is the Salaat il Wustaa? The day prayer, or following Gods commandment to be committed to your family?

I will comment later on the remaining translations of Yousuf Ali you presented.

Inquirer:

Central is quite different than middle. Central implies something of importance in one context and control of something in another. Middle here is refering to something known entity in the middle of the same type of entities i.e. Salat's or Prayer's.

Mahmood:

Your argument is valid, however you are ignoring that Salawaat and Salaat may not be the same. Let me translate it:

حَفِظُوا
Watch/Guard

عَلَى
over/upon

الصَّلَوَتِ
The SALAWAAT

وَ
and (does not say AND ESPECIALLY)

َالصَّلَوةِ الْوُسْطَى
The Central SALAAT

وَ
and

قُومُوا
Stand/Make-it-Right/Rise-Up

لِلَّه
For Allah

قَنِتِين
as Obedient

We can clearly see that "The Central Salaat" is inherently different from "The Salawaat", otherwise the word خُصُوْصًا (especially) would have been used dear brother...

In as such, The Salawaat cannot denote a set of rituals that is repeated... So the correct translation is:

Guard/Watch-over the System and The Central Duty (of staying attached/folowing/staying-commited) and rise-up/stand for The God as (those) obedient

So what system and which central duty? Does this make my earlier comment about "following Gods commandment to be committed to your family" clear?

Not sure why you did not choose 4:102-104 since those would have strengthened your case.

Several verses in the Quran speak of God's creation doing Salaat...

أَلَمْ تَرَى أَنَّ اللَّهَ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ مَنْ فِي السَّمَوَتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَالطَّيْرُ صَفَّتٍ كُلٌّ قَدْ عَلِمَ صَلَاتَهُ وَتَسْبِيحَهُ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِمَا يَفْعَلُونَ
(as per Yousuf Ali) Seest thou not that it is God Whose praises all beings in the heavens and on earth do celebrate, and the birds (of the air) with wings outspread? Each one knows its own (mode of) SALAAT and TASBEEH. And God knows well all that they do.

I untranslated the two words for a reason. Granted it is their own mode, but is it in any way unnatural or ritualistic (i.e. I am asking you how are they "performing" their SALAAT and doing TASBEEH)?

----
so what's next?
Mahmood Qasmi
Toronto, Canada
Mahmood Qasmi
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:24 pm
Contact:

Ritual prayer... debate

Post by Mahmood Qasmi »

Further to my discussion, I have the following:
---

Inquirer:
Irrelevant, humans should worry about how they are supposed to pray not birds. The purpose of the verse is to enlighten us that living things that we may not even know even glorify Allah SWT.

Mahmood:
Then I have nothing to explain to you bro... and I think we know how they Glorify Allah

Inquirer: RE: Salawaat and Central Salaat
You have it absolutely wrong, Salawaat is the plural is Salaat meaning Protect your prayers especially the middle prayer.

Mahmood:
Then bro, please get me an example that says wa Aqeem-us SalaWAata so we can proceed.

Inquirer
If Wusta meant Central then we should start calling "Mushriqi Wusta" Central East instead of Middle East.

Mahmood
In fact, Central Asia is known as Aasia il Wusta...
-
Mahmood Qasmi
Toronto, Canada
Arnold Yasin Mol

Ritual prayer... debate

Post by Arnold Yasin Mol »

Salaam Aleikum,

The key here is not translation, but approach. Yusuf's Ali translation is not wrong from a Grammar point of view, but is it correct with the global message of the Quran? This is the main point neglected in these discussions.

Salat has many meanings:

ص ل و = Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.

In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse’s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.


[Source]

Today's Islamic History has been recorded under the supervision of the Monarchs who themselves wanted to create a gap between the State and the Quran. As they couldn't change the Quran as it was to widespread in written form and memorized, they could change meanings and interpretations as 60 to 80% of the Muslims were of non-Arabian background. So to make sure people did not use the Quranic Economic System or Law System that urges people not hoard money and wealth and also that all of the people are kept involved in State and Law affairs; The interpretations of these terms must be changed.

Zakat was turned into a poor-tax instead of a System dedicated to the wellfare of the whole State. Salat, which had many meanings, was limited only to mean prayer, while the original meaning is clearly explained in 24:41, where animals follow their instinct [Salat=To follow closely] so they can struggle on their Mission [Tasbeeh=To swim with long strides, To go a Quest, Striving on a Mission]. As humans have no dominant instinct, Allah explains our Laws through Revelation, a sort of outside instinct.

The Human Salat urges them to follow the Laws of Allah in the Quran, which meant involvement in State-affiars and Economics.

This is why Iqama-a-Salat means 'To establish that which follows the Laws of Allah' meaning, to establish a State where the Laws of Allah are followed, establish the Deen. As the monarchs wanted complete control, the concept of Salat had to be changed. The Salat was changed into a mere ritual concept, and it is interresting that all major 'scholars' of that period were all from Persian origins, and that todays prayer ritual is exactly as the Persian prayer ritual. As the Quran claims it is complete, a new concept had to be created, that of a divine sunnah outside of the Quran. Sunnah in itself means 'habit, custom' of a people and the forefathers. Every city and tribe had and has its own Sunnah, custom.

200 years after the Prophet, Imam Shafi came up with the concept of divine Sunnah, which meant that every habit of the Prophet was from divine origins. This concept he most likely copied from the Jews who have the same idea about the Talmud, the Jewish Sunna and Hadith. He had to defend his ideas against the majority who rejected it, and he eventualy ended up in Iraq where he was accepted by the Abbasids with great interest. He presented them exactly what they needed, an approach that circumvenied the idea that the Quran was complete.

Then the second change was done by changing people's concept of why Revelations were send to Mankind. I will repeat some things that I have explained earlier in my article 'The Difference between Deen and Religious Approach'. I do this, as this whole discussion is not about grammar or Arabic meanings, it is about difference in approach. As long as the gentleman does not change his approach to the Quran, he will not agree with you and see it, so again here are the points.

He must understand these points:

1.The Quran and all its goals are meant for us to unite mankind on Earth. so we can create Paradise here, which will be continued in the Next Life. The Quran only explains Allah, not how we should acknowledge Him through rituals. [14]

2.The Quran is complete and detailed. [2:2, 6:38/112-116/126, 12]


If he believes Salat is a ritual, he has to explain why the Quran claims to be complete, but misses the details on the ritual? How can it be that Muslims are loosing in the world while God promises us victory in this world? And why are the Muslims divided, especially on the details on the ritual prayer? He must understand all of these points come from the understanding of Islam that was created under the kings, people who wanted wealth and complete control. Things that go directly against the Quran, does he believe the kings did not have any control on what people believed?

Let's explain the difference in approach. The real meaning of Revelation is explained in the story of Moses and Aaron:

When Moses returns from the mountain Sinai, he sees that his people have made a statue and has started worshipping it. Aaron/Harun, his brother and fellow Prophet, was left behind to keep guiding them. Moses sees the Shirk, Idolatry, and turns in anger to Aaron:

20:92 When he returned, Moses asked, “O’ Aaron! What stopped you when you saw them going astray?

20:93 That you followed me not? Didn’t you disobey my order?”

20:94 Aaron said, "O Son of my mother! Don't get mad at me, nor treat me harshly. I feared that you would say, “You have let the Children of Israel divide into parties and sects." (Moses accepted this explanation since sectarianism is no less a crime than idol worship in any form. Seizing the beard and head pertains to harsh interrogation 7:150).


Here we see clearly that the Prophet Aaron chooses UNITY of his people ABOVE the right concept of God. When Moses sees this, he is of course shocked, but the choice of Aaron is wise. Why?

When a people turn to a false idol or idols, it takes time for them to divide. In the first periods they are still united, as their self-made idol hasn't clashed with Reality yet. Only after a long period will people divide as the first idol-concept clashed with Reality, and so a new one is made to try again to confirm Reality with it. Each time they will fail, and keep on creating their concept of Reality. People's concepts of Reality will differ over time, and then they become divided.

If the Prophet Aaron would have attacked them on their idolatry immediately and without Moses's help, their would be a great risk in loosing the authority they had over them. They would have divided among themselves, to people who would have listened to Aaron and those who wouldn't. This break up would be disasterous for the Mission of Aaron and Moses.

A people who just have created a new idol are still united, but also can be quickly reformed when you give them the correct concept of Reality and thus of Allah.

So the Unity of a people goes above the right concept of Allah. As Peace is onyl created through unity.

The importance of believing in One God is explained throughout the Quran:

Allah Himself says:

14:8 Moses made it clear to his people that obedience to the Divine Commands was only good for them, “If you deny the Truth, you and all those who live in the earth, know that Allah is indeed Self-sufficient, Owner of Praise.”

He doesn't need anything, it us who are in need.

3:97 .... One who denies verily, Allah, the Rich is Self-Sufficient, want-free of any peoples.

To believe Allah is One is part of accepting Reality, it has NOTHING to do with Allah Himself. Allah is worthy of Praise, but does NOT demand it through rituals.

As in the words of Solomo:

27:40 ....He said, "This success is a blessing from my Lord, that He may try me whether I am grateful or ungrateful. Whoever is grateful is grateful for his own good, and whoever is ungrateful, should know that my Lord is Self-Sufficient, Supremely Honorable.”

So what is the true purpose of believing in Allah being One?

22:73 "O Mankind! Here is an example for you to listen and ponder! Behold, those beings you invoke instead of Allah, cannot create as much as a fly, even if they were to join all their forces to do so. And if a fly robs them of anything, they cannot get it back from it. Weak indeed is the seeker and weak indeed the sought.”

22:74 They esteem not Allah as He must be esteemed. In fact, Allah is the One, Mighty, All Powerful. (6:92, 39:67).


Believing in One God is the simple Truth, it is a direct observation of Reality. To see God as One, is the first step to distance one Self from Kafr. Kafr=To Close the Eyes for Reality/To bury the Truth for one's Self.

This observation of Reality is beautifully seen in the story of Abraham:

6:75 We gave Abraham insight, the ability to reflect, into the Mighty Dominion of the Universe so that he might attain firm conviction.

6:76 (Some of his people were idolaters and others were Nature worshipers.) One night when it grew dark upon him he saw a planet (Venus). Abraham exclaimed to them, “This is my Lord!” But when it went down, he said, “I love not the things that go down.”

6:77 (The other night) when the moon was rising, he exclaimed, “This is my Lord." But when it went down, he said to himself and to the people, “Unless my Lord guides me, I surely will go astray.”

6:78 (In the morning) he saw the sun rising in splendor, and he said, “This is my Lord! This is greater!” But, as the sun went down, Abraham exclaimed, “O My people! I am free from all that you associate with God.”

6:79 “I have focused firmly on Him Who initiated the heavens and the earth; as an upright man I turn away from all that is false. I will never be an idol worshiper in any form.”


Abraham saw that believe in idols is not based on Reality, but on selfimposed belief. It is not based on evidence.

We can see clear order in the Universe. Everything works through fixed Laws and not through chaos. This is clear evidence of a single Control. If there were more deciders on the Universe's purpose and governance, the Universe would be in chaos as every controller would have imposed their own will unto their part. Order means there is only one Will that governs the Universe. Allah clarifies this also with the verse:

21:22 If there were other gods besides God, there would have been chaos in both, the heavens and the earth. Glorified is Allah, the Lord of Supreme Control, above all that they contrive. (6:3, 16:51, 39:67, 3:84).

So believe in One God, One Creator is a confirmation of Reality. This is why we also say:

3:18 Allah Himself witnesses that there is no god but He and so do the Universal Physical Laws, and men and women of Science who research in the right direction (21:22). There is no god but He, the Almighty, the Wise.

It is the Muslim Creed of Belief.

Ashahadu Illeh illa Allah

shahada means to stand witness/to observe and confirm.

This is exactly what we do when we say this creed. We first see that their are no several rulers governing this Universe, and thus we witness and confirm Allah's only Supremacy.

Also there is another very important factor that comes out of believing in Allah alone. When people believe in several gods, idols or masters, eventualy every person in that group will have a favorite idol, and thus the group is split up between different followers. They all claim to believe in the same gods, but they always have a favorite and believe that is the only one that will bring them victory or afterlife. This is a fact observed in every religion. The Romans believed in hundreds of gods, and each family had their favorite who they worshipped and revered above the other gods. We can see this in Hinduism were several Temples are built for specific gods, and not for all of them. Thus although they all believe in the same group of gods, they are all devided in practice and goal.

In the book "The History of God" by K.Armstrong, she says about the belief in one god:

"Because of having one Supreme God, the Twelve tribes of the Hebrews were united in one single goal."

Allah says the same thing:

30:32 The MUSHRIKEEN that split up their religion becoming sects - each sect delighting in whatever beliefs they have. (3:104, 6:160, 23:53, 42:13. Sectarianism is invariably based upon taking humans as ‘authorities’).

Believing in One God is a direct observation of Reality and it unites us, as we all have the same goal and all acknowledge the same source of Nourishment. And we all accept the same Divine Will.

Prophets first began with the concept of Allah, as the people were highly divided as all followed their concept of Reality. To unite them into one single goal, they first must be taught the true concept of Reality before they can strive together for the Deen, the Divine System. The correct view on Allah is one of the means to help us in our true goal.

Muslims believe all in One God. But still they are divided. How can this be?

Because they believe worship and acknowledgment of Allah's Oneness is the MAIN purpose of the Quran. Because of this false concept, they are fighting each other over how to fulfill this idea of acknowledgment.

30:31 Turn unto Him alone then, and be mindful of Him, and establish the Divine System and be not of the MUSHRIKEEN who ascribe authorities along with Him. (2:213).

They approach the Quran from a RELIGIOUS point of view and not from a DEEN point of view. They don't understand Allah is above their selfimposed need to acknowledge Him.

3:97 .... One who denies verily, Allah, the Rich is Self-Sufficient, want-free of any peoples.

He does not demand acknowledgement of His Rule, He wants you to SEE it:

56:57 It is We Who have created you. Will you not, then, admit the Truth?

56:58 Have you ever considered the male and female seed?

56:59 Is it you who create it or are We the Creator?


To believe in One God will not unite the Muslims, as long as they approach the Quran from a religious point of view. The Quran is not meant to learn us how to acknowledge Allah, we do that by OBSERVING the Reality and Creation.

3:191 (Such men and women of understanding keep reflecting upon how Allah’s Laws operate in the Universe.) Standing, sitting, and reclining, they observe, and reflect upon Allah's creation of the Heavens and the Earth and wonder, "Our Lord! You have not created all this without Purpose. High Above You are from creating anything in vain! Save us, then, from being negligent in attaining knowledge and thus, getting condemned to Fire.” (When humans harness the forces of Nature and use them for the common good of all, they move away from Hell and close to Paradise in both lives 45:13-14).


The real purpose of the Quran is to UNITE the world. Make it again into ONE people as it was before. When we approach the Quran from this point of view, we would fear the idea of being divided as we then go directly against the Quranic Goal.

When we approach the Quran from a Deen point of view, it all becomes different. The Quranic purpose is to give Mankind the Perfect Divine System to unite them and give us eminence.

Salat means To Follow Closely, Attachment, Contact, Prayer and many more meanings. If we approach the Quranic Goal to be acknowledging Allah, to be a religious Book focussed on acknowledging Allah, then it is logical Salat means Prayer. But since it is clear WE are the focus of the Quran, then the meaning becomes totaly different.

The meaning of Salat is explained in:

24:41 Do you not realize that Allah, He it is Whom all beings in the heavens and the earth glorify, and the birds, with their wings outspread, as they fly in columns. All of them know their SALAT and TASBEEH (mission and strife). Allah is Aware of what they do to fulfill His Plan.

Tasbeeh means To Strive Hard, To go on a Quest/Mission, To Take Long Strides.

Salat means To Follow Closely.

So in order of the verse, all beings knows what to follow closely to strive hard on their quest, they know their Salat and Tasbeeh.

What do animals follow? Their instinct which tells them how to work the Laws of Nature in the best way so to become the strongest and multiply.

We as humans don't have an instinct on a dominant level. So to follow the Laws of Nature, we must observe them closely. But there are also many Laws we can't observe through Scientific Research. These Laws are explained to us through Revelation. Revelations are Instincts for Mankind to follow voluntarely.

So Salat means to Follow the Divine Laws of Nature and Revelation so we can know how to strive hard on our Quest and Mission.

This is the difference and importance of approach. Believe in One God is a confirmation of Reality and the first step into uniting Mankind and the Muslims. But it is the same approach to the Quran which will truly unite us. It is clear the Quran is focussed on us, not on Allah. He has given us the Quran so we can become the best people on Earth. To make Paradise on earth that will be continued in the Next Life. We must all approach the Quran from this point, and then the true meanings of words become clear.

This debate on Salat being a ritual or not has nothing to do with Arabic meaning and grammar, it has to do with approach. As long as they approach the Quran from a religious point of view, they will be stuck in that thinking and stuck in their situation.

When they start realizing that the correct approach was hidden by the kings and the scholars who worked for them, the Quranic Message becomes much more clear.

Then we can claim:

3:110 (Since you have been empowered by the Qur’an), you are indeed the best suited Community that has been raised up for the good of mankind. You shall enjoin the Right, by example and close the doors to Wrong, by example, since you have conviction in Allah (and accept His Final Word as the Criterion of Right and Wrong 3:4. The Qur’an educates you on the Permanent Moral Value System and distinguishes clearly what the otherwise vague terms of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, and ‘good’ and ‘evil’ would mean). Now if the People of the Scripture had attained this kind of belief, it would have been for their own good. Some of them do embrace belief, while most of them continue to drift away.


So from a Deen point of view, the verses on Salat are explained as such:

11:114 Strive to establish and consolidate the Divine System, day and night. Actions that create balance in the society remove the ill effects of inequities. Good deeds remove bad deeds. This is a reminder for those who pay attention.

[Al-Nahar=The daytime=The period between dawn or sunrise to sunset. Al-Layl=The night=The period between sunset to dawn or sunrise. The timings adressed refer not to specific times, but to all day long and all night long. To believe it refers to timings is a forced meaning.]

2:238 While describing some important marital Laws, it is reiterated that, your Central Duty remains the guarding of the System in which individuals and families can develop their potentials to the maximum. Stay alert in the obedience to Allah.



17:78 You shall commit yourself to reflect on the Divine Commands before
sunrise and then carry on with your program until the darkness of night
prevails. The Quran springs forth the Light for you to brighten your way. The
Dawn ushered in by the Quran will be self-evident to all. Its likeness is the
Dawn that brings light after a dark night. (42:38)




24:58 (Your social mannerism begins at home.) O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Let your servants and children who have not yet come of age ask your permission before coming in to see you on three occasions: Before you engage in your assignments at dawn, at noon when you are resting with light clothes, and after you have completed your assignments at night. These are your three times of privacy. At other times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about freely, attending to one another. In this way, Allah makes clear to you the revelations, for, Allah is All Knowing, Wise.

[Salat=To follow the Divine Laws; 24]

In the Quran, only one form of Prayer is given, and that is congretional prayer. It is not based on prescribed timings but on NEED, as the Jumaah-gatherings are meant to discuss matters of community, society, Law, State, Education, Economics, enviromenment and so on. Individual prayer is not given, as Salat is always given in plural.

4:101 When you go forth in the land, there is no blame on you if you shorten the congregations of prayers, if you fear that the unbelievers may attack you. Surely, the rejecters are an open enemy to you.
4:102 O Messenger! When you are with them and establish the congregations of prayers for them, let some of them stand guard, and let them hold their weapons standing with you as you prostrate. Then let the other group who has not prayed take their turn praying with you, while the others stand guard and hold their weapons. The disbelievers wish to see you neglect your weapons and equipment, and ambush you once and for all. You commit no error, if you are hampered by rain or injury, by putting down your weapons. But always be fully prepared against danger. Surely, God has readied a humiliating suffering for those who deny the Truth.

[O Messenger! When you are with them during battle, let one group come to you for discussing the strategy and let others to be attentive to face the
enemy, when discussion is over and final Message after consensus passed to them then let the other group come to you to get the Message but they should also be attentive as rejecters of God's Guidance may take the opportunity of your negligence. And there is no blame on you if you lay aside your weapons if you are hampered by rain, sickness or injury. But in spite of that take your precautions and do not loose the concentration. Once you will adopt this strategy, you will be victorious.Salat=Following of the Divine Commands; 24]

4:103 Be mindful of God’s Commands whatever state you are in, standing, sitting or lying down. And when you are once again secure, establish the congregations of Salaat. Joining the congregations of Salaat at the times appointed by the Central Authority is a duty unto believers.

[Verses 4]

What Exactly Was NAMAAZ (Ritual Salaat): Analytically searching our history and Hadith, following was the probable situation in the lifetime of the exalted Prophet and Sahaba Kiraam.

• Ritual prayer or Namaaz was a small part of Aqamatis-Salaat, i.e. establishing the System that facilitates the following of Divine Commands.
• The ritual prayer was always congregational.
• Women and men both formed this congregation, women on the right side of men.
• The frequency and timing of the congregations were determined by the State as needed. It was never fixed as five times a day ritual.
• Namaaz was performed with the Imam (Central or local government official) reciting some verses from the Qur'an relevant to the situation at hand as the congregation listened to the Imam. Then the Imam would lead two units of prayers standing.
• Masjid was not a temple of worship. It was the Assembly, the School, the Municipality, the Parliament and the Government House. So, after that recitation, the leader would discuss real issues about the community, entertain questions, present bills, announce decisions of the Shura (Counsel) and the Assembly would legislate. People came up with their ideas for betterment of the society. Masjid was also the place where the leader was elected.


(Some references on the above two headings: *** Haroon Wa Baramikatil Faras by Sheikhul Ifta Salman bin Abu Qasim Baghdadi. Vol 1 pg 31-55 *** Meezan-il-Faris by Hujjatullah Abdul Qadir Ali Al-Moosvi pg 249-261 ***Takmilatil Lughatal 'Ain 'Urfa by Al-Ustaz Jalaluddin Al-Ash'ari on Imam Al-Khalil ibn Ahmad Shikoh Tabrezi vol 2 pg 3-5 *** Mujahid-al-Munafiq Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal by Abdul Muhsin bin Mullah Ali Al-Qari, pg 67-135)

If persons want to pray 5 times a day, this is of course no problem, as long as they focus it on God alone (39:45, 72:18) and not on any humans or families. Also the person must remember that this is a Self-imposed habit, it is not forbidden or ordered by Allah.

And he must remember that there is no consensus on prayer, as the Hadith contradict each other on the mode:

The "Imams" Mock Namaz!

“THE QUESTION IS: Do the 1.4 million Ahadith give us a complete, unified, method of NAMAZ (How to pray, ‘perform’ or ‘offer NAMAZ)? The answer is a resounding NO!

- Please remind yourself of the famous, weird tale of the Prophet (S) ascending to heavens to meet with Allah, the so-called Me'raaj (the word is non-existent in the Qur'an). Is not Allah Omnipresent?

The "Imams" of Hadith want us to believe that Allah ordained 50 ritual prayers daily for Muslims on that occasion. As the exalted Prophet was descending from the highest sky, Prophet Moses told him of the impossibility of the situation and sent Muhammad (S) back again and again. Imagine the Prophet (S) bargaining with God! Repeated visits to and fro then bring the number down to 40, 30, 20, 10, (elsewhere, from 50 down to half and again to another half and so on), finally to 5! Allah also said, “These are five and these are fifty. I do not alter My Word.” Moses a. s. wanted him to make one more trip but Muhammad (S) said, “I feel shy of my Lord” (to go back and bargain any further.)

Was this Hadith, in addition to promoting ritualism, fabricated to prove the superiority of Moses a. s. over Muhammad (S) and enen God? Only an extremely gullible mind would accept this nonsensical story. (See Bukhari vol 1 Kitab-us-Salat pg 215 Hadith 339 for exact details)
So, neither Allah nor Rasool had any idea of human limitations. Had Moses not intervened, the Ummah would be praying a non-stop 24 hours day and night. Thank Moses a. s. for being the instructor of Allah and Rasool. Thank him for saving Islam from their blunder. What mockery! Think! Allah also said, “These are five and these are fifty. I do not alter My Word.”
But the story has just begun. Let us see a little more closely what Hadith has to offer about teaching us NAMAZ.

- Hazrat Anas said: The Prophet (S) used to do a new Wudhu (ablution) for every Namaz. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 35)
- Contradiction - Hazrat Ibn Abbas said: Rasool (S) slept for a while – went to the Masjid and prayed (‘offered’ Namaz) without Wudhu. (Bukhari, Kitabul Wudhu)
- The Sahaba of Rasool (S) used to ‘perform’ Namaz without Wudhu after waking up from sleep. (Muslim with Fathil Mulhim pg 500)

Is Ghusl (bath) mandatory after intercourse?
- Hazrat Usman said: If a man withdraws before ejaculation, let him wash the genitals and make Wudhu (No bath necessary). (Bukhari, vol 1 Kitabul Wudhu pg 164 Hadith 176)
- Bath becomes mandatory after penetration. (Muwatta pg 22)
- Rasool (S) said: When a man sits between the woman’s legs and pushes hard, Ghusl (bath) becomes mandatory with or without ejaculation. (Muslim vol 1 Bab-il-Wudhu pg 485)
- Ubbi bin Ka’ab asked Rasoolullah (S), “If a man engages in intercourse and withdraws before ejaculation, should he take bath?” He replied, “He should do Wudhu and pray.”
[Now what conclusion can we reach if any?! Would the great men who conquered 1/3rd of the world and their hearts and became teachers of humanity, indulge in such trivia and nonsense?]

- Rasool (S) said, “Renew Wudhu after eating anything cooked on fire.” (Muslim vol 1 pg 486)
- BUT – Ibn Abbas says, “Rasoolullah ate a roasted goat shoulder and then prayed without ablution.” (Same vol 1 pg 488)

- Hazrat Bilal was ordered to say two Takbeers in Azaan and one in Iqaamat. (Muslim vol 2 pg 2) Why do Muslims say two Takbeers in Iqaamat? There must be another Hadith contradicting this one.
- When asked what to recite after Surah Fatihah in Namaz, Abu Hurairah said, “Reciting any Surah is good but Al-Fatihah is sufficient.” (Muslim vol 2 pg 31) The Imams of FIQH maintain that Al-Fatihah is not sufficient.
- Hazrat Umar used to recite “Subhaanakallahumma ---” loudly. (Muslim vol 2 pg 38) The Imams tell us to recite it in the heart.
- Hazrat Anas said, “I prayed behind Rasoolullah, Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman. They used to begin Namaz with Al-Fatihah.” No Subhanakallahumma ---. (Muslim vol 2 pg 38)
- When the pulpit was built in Masjid Nabawi, the Rasool climbed on it, turned to the Qiblah, said Takbeer and people got arranged in columns. After recitation, he bowed on his knees, then came down, prostrated on the ground, then again climbed on the pulpit. He did bow (did rukoo’) again and then came down for prostration on the ground. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 53) What! Say that again.

- Rasoolullah picked up his daughter Zainab’s little girl Amama and began praying. When he went into Sajdah (prostration) he placed her on the ground and when he got up, he picked her up again. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 69)
- If someone passes in front of a praying person, stop him. If he doesn’t stop, kill him because he is Shayitaan. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 68)
- But: Abdullah Ibn Abbas said, “I rode a she-ass to MINA. Rasoolullah (S) was leading the prayer. I passed before some praying ones and got off from the animal and joined the prayers. None objected. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 107)
- Hazrat Sa’d bin Abi Waqaas used to pass from in front when the prayers was on. (Muwatta 55)
- No harm is done to prayers if someone passes from in front. (Muwatta 55)
- Rasoolullah said, “The prayer is broken if a woman, a donkey or a dog come in front.” (Muslim vol 2 pg 111)

THE HADITHI PUNCH LINE CONTINUED AND DEMOLISHED!
AGAIN, THE QUESTION IS: Do the 1.4 million Ahadith give us a complete, unified, method of NAMAZ (How to pray, ‘perform’ or ‘offer NAMAZ? The answer is a resounding NO!


- Hazrat Ayesha said, “You (narrators) have made us donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I used to be lying in front on the rug while Rasoolullah prayed. (Muslim vol 2 pg 111)
- Bukhari (Kitab-us-Salat, vol 1 pg 93) narrates four Ahadith that the Rasool (S) used to raise his hands up to the ears before bowing and also on rising from ‘Attahayyaat --.’ Why don’t the majority of Muslims do it?

- Rasoolullah used to combine Zuhr, ‘Asr, Maghrib and ‘Isha prayers without duress or travel. (Muwatta 51, Muslim vol 2 pg 265) Why can't we do it? Because of other contradictory Ahadith and the Fuqaha, the 'Jurists'.
- Mu’aawiyah bin Hakam was praying with Rasool (S). A praying one sneezed and I said the customary blessing, ‘Yahamakallah’. The Rasool (S) told me after prayers, “;Human words are not permissible during Salat.” (Muslim vol 2 pg 126)
- BUT – Once, the Satan came before Rasoolullah during Namaz and the Rasool (S) said three times, “Allah’s curse upon you!” (Muslim vol 2 pg 131) Human words, how’s that? And how about depicting the “Satan” as a physical entity rather than the Qur’anic ‘selfish desire’?
- The Rasool (S) was praying ‘Isha. After rising from rukoo’ he said, “O Allah! Have mercy on 'Ayyaash bin Abi Rabia’ah and other poor Muslims. Grasp the Al-Mudhar Tribe and send famine on them.” (Muslim vol 2 pg 236) Human words, aren't they? The exalted Prophet never prayed for infliction. He always prayed for guidance of people and wished well for all.

- Rasoolullah never used to raise hands in prayers except when praying for rains. (Bukhari vol 1 page 125)
- He always raised hands during any du'a. (References too many to point)
- Rasoolullah used to offer prayers with shoes on. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 55) [Can we? The Mullah drives out even a non-Muslim from the Masjid if he is wearing shoes]

- Sahaba used to pray even when bleeding from an arrow. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 32, Ibn Majah, Muslim, Nisaai & many other sources)
- Oozing of blood from anywhere in the body nullifies Wudhu or Salat. (Same sources and Fuqaha)
- Hazrat Anas states that Rasool (S) used to pray the briefest complete Namaz. (Muslim vol 2 pg 86)
- The Rasool (S) used to scold people who led long prayers. (Two Ahadith, Muslim vol 2 ppg 84, 85)
- BUT, Hazrat Anas states that Rasool (S) stood still so long after bowing (rukoo’) that the watcher thought he forgot (to proceed). The same used to happen after Sajdah (prostration). (Muslim vol 2 pg 87)
- Abu Saeed Khadri narrates: Rasoolullah’s prayer used to be so long that supposing the noon prayer has begun. A man walks to the graveyard of Baqee’, comes back home, makes ablution and goes to the Masjid. And he finds him still leading the first raka’at (unit). (Muslim vol 2 pg 48)

Then there are innumerable contradictions in what du’as the exalted Messenger used to recite and teach at each point in Namaz. (See Bukhari vol 1 ppg 99 to104, Muslim vol 2 ppg 43, 48, 90)
So, this is what the Hadith teaches us about Namaz:

1. If you have been snoring in sleep, you need not do Wudhu. Sorry, you do need Wudhu.
2. Cooked food will break your ablution, but, the roasted goat won’t.
3. Bleeding does not spoil Wudhu or prayers. Sorry, it does.
4. If there is no ejaculation, bath is not necessary. Sorry, it is necessary.
5. You can combine the noon, afternoon, evening and night prayers. Sorry, you cannot.
6. Don’t lift your hands for du’a. Do lift your hands for du’a.
7. Before Rukoo’, raise your hands to the shoulders. No, don’t.
8. Pray two units after ‘Asr. No, don’t.
9. You can pray with your child in your lap. You can’t do that (FIQH)
10. You can keep climbing up and down the stairs during Namaz. (No way! FIQH)
11. Only Al-Fatiha is enough for Namaz. Sorry, it’s not enough.
12. ‘Allahhumma’ can be read aloud. No, it cannot be read aloud. But, you can pray without it. No, never! You can’t pray without it.
13. You may curse the Satan during Namaz and pray for others. No, never!
14. Say anything after At-Tahiyyat that you want. No, only say this and this.
15. Kill anyone passing in front of the Namazis, but leave alone Hazraat Abdullah Ibn Abbas and Saad bin Abi Waqas.
16. If a woman, donkey, or dog passes from in front, the Namaz is broken. But if your wife is lying down on your prayer rug right in front, never mind.


So, this is the Salat or Namaz of Hadith. Can you pray at all according to Hadith? You claim Hadith tells you the method of Namaz. Then, which is the greater riddle; Hadith or your excellency?! “

The Qur'an commands us to remember Allah lying, sitting and standing any time. Call it the ritual salat.

WHO CONTRIVED NAMAAZ (THE RITUAL PRAYER)?
There was not one single man who introduced the Namaaz deception into Islam. Obviously, no one man could. Such conspiracies have to be state-sponsored in order to get hold of the masses. Think of the history of Christianity for a moment. The Pauline doctrine was not canonized until Emperor Constantine supported it at the Conference of Nicea in 325 CE.

WHAT ACTUALLY IS SALAAT:
2:43 And establish the Divine System, and set up the Just Economic Order in the society. And bow with others who bow to these Commands.
[9]

THE IMAMIST CONSPIRACY OF NAMAAZ:
Please remind yourself of the famous weird tale of the Prophet (S) ascending to heavens to meet with Allah, the so-called Me'raaj (the word is non-existent in the Qur'an). Is not Allah Omnipresent? The "Imams" of Hadith want us to believe that Allah ordained 50 ritual prayers daily for Muslims on that occasion. As the exalted Prophet was descending, Prophet Moses told him of the impossibility of the situation and sent Muhammad (S) back again and again. Imagine the Prophet (S) bargaining with God! Repeated visits to and fro then bring the number down to 40, 30, 20, 10, and finally 5! Moses a. s. wanted him to make one more trip but Muhammad (S) felt shy to bargain any further. Was this Hadith, in addition to promoting ritualism, fabricated to prove Moses' farsightedness over Muhammad (S)? Only an extremely gullible mind would accept this nonsense.
The later Persian Imams built upon this tale and formulated the current Namaaz. They received strong support from the Persian Zoroastrian mother of Khalifa Haroon Rasheed, Khaizran (d. 789 CE). Haroon's Zoroastrian viziers, the Baramika were only too happy to join hands with the royal mother, Khaizran.
So, it was she in concert with others who "canonized" Namaaz according to the desires of the Criminal Imams in 153 AH (773 CE). Her main philosopher was Imam Al-Khalil bin Ahmad Shikoh, the first ever compiler of Arabic to Persian dictionary, Al-'Ain.

WHY WAS IMAM HANBAL FLOGGED?
Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal is reported to have been flogged by Khalifa Mamun son of Haroon because Hanbal supposedly insisted that the Qur'an being the Word of God was Ghair Makhlooq (non-creation). No! That wasn't it. It was too trivial a debate. Hanbal got flogged because he saw and opposed the Persian Namaaz (Bandagi or Gah) being incorporated into Islam.

ANOTHER POINT OF INTEREST:
Khaizran spent a fortune on her project and distributed one million gold coins and 65 million silver coins among her subjects to propagate the 'canonized' Namaaz. References are given in the next heading.
Less than 5% Muslims "perform" Namaaz and they keep announcing their prayers. No one can say or says, "I have established Salaat." Yet, most Muslims keep arguing about Namaaz.
Experiment: Call a random gathering of Muslims anywhere for Namaaz under completely unexpected circumstances. You will notice almost all of them joining the lines, most of them without Wudhu (Ablution)!

HOW QUICKLY WAS THE RITUAL SALAAT CHANGING!
Arif Shamim, Karachi
Bukhari Vol.1, Book 10, Number 507: Narrated Ghailan: Anas bin Malik (A Sahabi) said, "I do not find (now-a-days) things as they were (practised) at the time of the Prophet." Somebody said "The prayer (is as it was)". Anas said, "Have you not done in the prayer what you have done?"
Bukhari Vol.1, Book 10, Number 508: Narrated Az-Zuhri that he visited Anas bin Malik at Damascus and found him weeping and asked him why he was weeping. He replied, "I do not know anything which I used to know during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle except this prayer which is being lost (not being offered as it should be)."
The comments, "Have you not done in the prayer what you have done?", and the "Lost Prayer" indicate that something went wrong with the Ritual Prayer (Namaaz) soon after Sahaba Kiraam.

DOES HADITH EXPLAIN THE METHOD OF NAMAAZ?
The Book of Allah claims to be, and certainly is, complete, detailed and describes all things divinely ordained. Say this to an N2I. The knee-jerk response will be, "No, it does not give you the method of Namaaz." Well, did Allah forget? Contrary to the common claims, all the books of Hadith combined together will fail to give you a complete, consistent method of Namaaz.

RITUALISTIC SALAAT BY ITSELF IS NOTHING:
11:87 They said, "O Shoaib! (We had thought that your religion was only a matter between you and your Lord). Does your Salaat command that we should forsake the worship that our fathers practised? Or, that we leave off doing what we like to do with our economy? Behold, you want us to think that you are the only clement, and the rightly guided man among us."

DOES NAMAAZ DO ALL THIS? AQAAMATUSSALAAT SURE DOES:
29:45 (O Prophet) convey to people all that is revealed to you of the Book, and establish the Divine System. For, verily, establishment of the Divine System will shut off lewdness, stinginess and behavior contrary to the Divine Values. This is so, because Allah’s Law is the Greatest Law that can give you eminence. And (O People) Allah knows whatever you contrive on your own. [21]

CENTRAL PRAYER:
What is Salaatil Wusta? Central Prayer? Middle Namaaz? Namaaz 'Asr?
2:238 Watch all your commitments and especially the Central Duty (of guarding of the Divine System). And stay alert in Allah's Cause.

THE RITUAL PRAYER (NAMAAZ) AND MORE
Ardeshir Spencer

I am a Zoroasrtrian. Dr. Shabbir's research is quite right. Your NAMAAZ was stolen from Zoroastrianism by your Parsi Imams from Persia.

It would be appropriate if we can discuss the startling similarities between some practices of Islam and Zoroastrianism. These parallels go beyond the co-incindental normal ones. I will endeavour to enumerate a few here:

01. Requirements of prayers: Islam enjoins its followers to pray 5 times a day and is called by the Muezzin to his prayers.These prayers are at i) Dawn ii) Noon iii) Afternoon iv) Sunset v) Night.

Zoroastrianism also enjoins prayers 5 times a day called "Geh". The devotee is summoned by the ringing of a bell in the AtashBehram / Agiary. These prayers are also at the same time as in Islam and their respective names are:

Time: Islamic/ Zorastrianism
Dawn: Fajar/ Havaan
Noon: Zohar/ Rapithwan
Afternoon: Asr/ Uziren
Evening: Mazreem or Maghrib/ Aiwisuthrem
Night time: Isha or Ishan/ Ushaen.

02. Pre-requisites of Prayer: On entering the mosque and prior to commencing prayers a Muslim has to cover his head and wash his face and limbs. Similarly, a Zoroastrian on entering the Agiary will cover his head, wash his face and limbs and perform the Padyaab Kusti before commencing his prayers.

03. The Prayers: Prayers in Islam are in Arabic only, though translations/transliterations are available. The liturgy has to be conducted in Arabic only. In Zoroastrianism too, prayers have to be recited in Avesta or in Pazend only. In fact in Aveatan prayers Pazend portions have to be recited in an undertone so as not to break the seamless flow of Avestan Manthravani.

04. Sanctum Sanctorum and its veneration: The holiest spot in a Mosque is the wall facing Mecca and is called the Qiblah. In the Atashbehram/Agiary the room where the Atash Padshah is enthroned is also called the Keblaah. A Muslim will perform the Sajdah in front of the Qiblah and so also will the Zoroastrian perform the Sezdah before his Keblaah. Both involve kneeling down and touching the forehead to the ground.

05. A Holy Month: In Islam Ramzan is the holy month in which all Muslims are required to fast in the day and only break their fast after sunset. In Zoroastrianism the month of Bahman has similiar connotations wherein all are requested to particularly abstain from flesh. Perhaps in the age of the Sassanian dynasty the month of Bahman was observed as Ramzan is now.

06. Ascent into Heaven: The hagiography of Islam assures us that Prophet Mohammad ascended to heaven from Jerusalem on the mythical beast Burrrak. He crossed the 7 spheres, exchanged greetings with the patriarchs and beheld the glory of God.

The Dinkard tells us that at the entreaties of Asho Zarthustra Bahman Ameshaspand transcendentally elevated his consciousness to the realm of heaven wherein Asho Zarthustra looked at the reflugent majesty of God. A similiar journey was attributed to the virtuous Ardaviraf who visited hell, purgatory and heaven during his spiritual journey.

The above similarities are obvious. A more careful research would reveal more parallels. However even these points are too close to be dismissed as mere coincidences. This means Zoroastrianism has had an enormous impact on Islam which is not acknowledged. Everyone agrees Islam owes a lot to Judaism and Christianity but I feel that the scholars of Islam borrowed very heavily from Iran and this can be perhaps attributed to that shadowy figure of Dastur Dinyar (Salman Farsi). This debt is so impressive that it had to be consistently downgraded and later denied. After all if Islam is supposedly directly inspired by God it cannot be seen to be acknowledging any debt to an older faith, specially the faith of a nation which Islam has defeated. This may perhaps explain the devotion of your Persian Imams to my Faith.

07. Chinvat Bridge (The SIRAAT BRIDGE): According to ancient Persian myth, when a person dies, the soul remains by the body for three days. On the fourth, it travels to Chinvat Bridge (the Bridge of the Separator, also call Al-Sirat), accompanied by gods of protection. The bridge is "finer than a hair and sharper than a sword" and spans a deep chasm teeming with monsters. On the other side of the bridge is the gateway to paradise.

08. Hell: Demons guard the foot of the bridge and argue with the gods over the soul's fate. The actions of the dead person, both good and bad, are weighed, and the soul is either allowed to cross or denied access to the bridge. Spirits whose evil outweighs their good fall into the demon-infested pit to face eternal torment. In this abyss of the damned, each soul is tortured by a GHOUL that represents its sins in life. Once fallen into the gulf, no soul can escape the horrors of hell through its own power.

Zoroaster, a sixth century BC religious leader, had warned his followers of this obstacle to heaven but he promised to lead his flock safely across. The ancient manuscript Gathas (Songs of Zoroaster) explains that the Bridge of the Separator "becomes narrow for the wicked," whereas the holy can easily pass unharmed. (In Gathas, the fair god Rashnu is named as the judge who helps determine who is worthy of salvation and who must be damned.) All infidels (non-believers) fall into hell, which the prophet says has been created especially for the "followers of the lie."

The legends are sketchy but assert that Chinvat Bridge is located somewhere in the far north. It is a place of filth where the damned endure physical tortures and spiritual agony. Souls who are unsuccessful in crossing the Chinvat Bridge suffer these torments until AHRAMAN, the evil god of ZOROASTRIANISM, is destroyed by the good god Orzmahd during the LAST JUDGMENT. As this time, lost spirits are restored to the truth since "the lie" has been eradicated, or they face final ANNIHILATION.

Notice the similarity? So you guys are actually pagan stone and sun worshippers, correct? But your Koran is pure and free from plagiarism.
hati

Ritual prayer... debate

Post by hati »

Except for Mr. Spencer in that post , I have not seen yet any compelling evidence that the Muslim Salat was changed to shat it is now.

I agree that the hadeeth are weak or corrupted but please show also evidence that the persians or leaders of the time change the salat.

Salam

Hati
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