Salam
It's one of the FAQ by Christens however I need a short and concret answer. I 've been given hundreds of verses from the Bible about love of God. Whereas I don't 've anything enough from Al-Quran that address the love of Allah with mankind.
Specaily from Br. Arnald. What do you understand about God or Allah when you look at the verses of warnings (Adhab like Surah Tauba) to un-beleivers?
What type of relationship we are supposed to have with God fear or love?
Unfortunately I don't have much time to go through any books. So any precised answer would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Difference b/w God of Anger and Love
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abdullah
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Ahmed Mateen
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Difference b/w God of Anger and Love
Salaam,
Anger of Allah is the consequences of violation of His laws and love is the fruitful result of following them.
Here is a short posts about this:
http://ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=574
And here you can find Borhter Arnold’s explanation as well: http://ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=456
I hope it helps
Anger of Allah is the consequences of violation of His laws and love is the fruitful result of following them.
Here is a short posts about this:
http://ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=574
And here you can find Borhter Arnold’s explanation as well: http://ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=456
I hope it helps
-
Arnold Yasin Mol
Difference b/w God of Anger and Love
Salaam Aleikum,
The way the Bible represents Love and Punishment of God is presented as if it is done through emotions. The Universe is randomnly controlled by God, and the fixed laws in nature are useless when it comes to the approach to reality as given in the Bible.
In the Quran, the Universe follows a fixed course and follows fixed laws from which God does not deviade. These Laws are created in such a way that humans can use their free will. All deeds have consequences, in this Life or the Next. Animals have inborn instinct, inborn Divine Guidance (24:41), but humans do not have a dominant instinct.
This is to allow their free will. And so God has given Divine Guidance through Prophets, chosen people, to relate His Guidance, and mankind can accept or reject freely without bothering Him. The only problem is that humans by themselves cannot behave correctly towards Reality without Guidance, and so without it, they will create deeds which might have dire consequences.
God knows handling Free Will is hard, and so He protects us against many consequences.
2:225 God will not take you to task for your senseless swearing. He holds you responsible for your intentional doings. God is Forgiving, Clement.
4:28 God wishes to lighten your burden with His Guidance. The human being is created weak, having the tendency to fall victim to his own selfish desire (7:17, 25:28-29)
But His Love for us is mostly seen in the reason WHY He has revealed Guidance. In Christianity for example, people are born with sin that supposedly was given by Adam. The Quran rejects this idea as nobody can carry the burden of another.
6:164 Say, "Shall I seek anyone other than God as a lord when He is the Sustainer of all things? No ‘self’ benefits but from its own works, and none bears the load of another. Then unto your Lord is your return and He will make you understand wherein you differed.
The concept of carrying the stain of sin of Adam and then freeing us through the suffering of Jesus is contradicting, and illogical. In this whole ideology there is no room at all for responsibility of a person's own deeds. And the relationship between God and man is unfair as it is God who decided when to punish and when to free a person.
The Quran denies this ideology and calls it man-made. The Quran frees man of this self-imposed concept of 'sin' and says everybody gets a fair chance. He has made fixed laws which everyone can follow to attain perfection. There are no personal interests for God in our creation. And the same holds for Revelation.
Revelations were send to unite people and free them from the shackles of human will. Laws are not based on the elite's need, or the opinion of the majority, as both of these do not coincide with reality and will not create equal chances for all humans.
The System of the Quran, Deen, creates a society were every single individual will have the same oppertunity, benefit and means to develop his Self.
The Love of God in the Quran is shown through the Laws He demands to be established in the society. As love for God in the tampered Gospel and Thora does not free anyone from the burden of the unjust in society. The love they experience is self-imposed and the 'result' of God's love can only be experienced in the Hereafter in Christian theology.
In Quranic theology, the Love of God is directly experienced through the caring laws He demands to be followed by society. His system is like the womb of a mother, He is Rahman. This is the difference between the Realistic God of the Quran, and that of the tampered Bible.
So when you want to explain and the understand the Love of God in the Quran and that of the Bible, you must compare the 2:
-The Love of God in the Bible still leaves only with a feeling and a waiting of the result in the Hereafter. This Love does not help to create peace on earth or help us create a peaceful and fair society. People carry the burden of sin, while never having participated in the deed done, and then are freed by the one who put the unfair burden upon us. This slapping you for the deed of somebody else, and then slaps himself to free you of the burden of that somebody elses's deed. This is unfair love. It is a bit like the love people experience for their hostage-taker that develops through fear and feeling of bonding. Although Christianity creates high moral under its followers, it doesn't create solutions for mankind, and thus God's Love is moved only to the Next world. People are left to themselves and must through a hard path of trial and error create better life conditions. The high status of the West was not created through the guidance in the Bible, but through centuries of borrowing and developing ideas and concepts. They had to develop their own system without God's guidance, and thus people suffered under this trial and error process. A very limited love if you ask me.
-In the Quran, God's Love is expressed through the Laws He demands to be followed by us. Because these Laws create an equal and just society where everybody is allowed to be free and to be taken care of, so everybody can develop them Selves to the fullest. It creates a perfect society that prepares people for the Hereafter. There are no real class-difference and all wealth is spread out over the people so all can benefit. The Love is not felt, it is directly experienced. Nobody carries the burden of another, and all are judged according to fair and direct Laws so all people will know how they are judged. Rewards are created through actions that lead to developing of mankind. People can skip the trial and error experience and are directly guided to the best ways for society. God has not left them alone, no person in society, no human on earth, He guides them all to the right path of living directly. And so His Love is not shifted to the Hereafter, but to both worlds, here and the next. His Love is felt and experienced through the Laws that create equal circumstances for all humans on Earth, He tells them how to develop themselves and others. The Quran can guide a society and contains all it needs to create the basis for a strong and fair society. It pushed the First Muslims from nothing to the kings of the world.
The God of the Quran does not leave any path open, He explains all fields, so mankind is not left alone in any field. Justice, Politics, State, Individual, Marriage, Social, Science, Theology, Spiritual, all matters are explained, so mankind knows directly what he is up too and what is expected of him.
This is the difference........
93:3 Your Lord has never forsaken you, nor did He ever forget you.
[‘Qala’ = Forget things unattended in a cooking pan. God has always provided mankind with what their minds and bodies need and ensures that they do not trail behind in the process of Evolution.]
21:10 O Mankind! Now We have revealed unto you a Book that is all about you and it will give you eminence. Will you not, then, use reason? (21:24, 23:70, 43:43-44)
22:78 Strive hard in God’s Cause, with all the striving that is due to Him. It is He Who has elected you to carry the Message and has placed no hardship in religion, the creed of your father Abraham (2:143, 2:288) It is He Who has named you (Muslimeen) Muslims in the bygone days and now in this Revelation. That the Messenger may be a witness for you and you be witnesses for all mankind! (You shall be the watchers over people that no community oppresses the other) So, establish the Divine System and set up the Just Economic Order, and hold fast unto God. He is your Lord Supreme, and how excellent is this Giver of support!
The way the Bible represents Love and Punishment of God is presented as if it is done through emotions. The Universe is randomnly controlled by God, and the fixed laws in nature are useless when it comes to the approach to reality as given in the Bible.
In the Quran, the Universe follows a fixed course and follows fixed laws from which God does not deviade. These Laws are created in such a way that humans can use their free will. All deeds have consequences, in this Life or the Next. Animals have inborn instinct, inborn Divine Guidance (24:41), but humans do not have a dominant instinct.
This is to allow their free will. And so God has given Divine Guidance through Prophets, chosen people, to relate His Guidance, and mankind can accept or reject freely without bothering Him. The only problem is that humans by themselves cannot behave correctly towards Reality without Guidance, and so without it, they will create deeds which might have dire consequences.
God knows handling Free Will is hard, and so He protects us against many consequences.
2:225 God will not take you to task for your senseless swearing. He holds you responsible for your intentional doings. God is Forgiving, Clement.
4:28 God wishes to lighten your burden with His Guidance. The human being is created weak, having the tendency to fall victim to his own selfish desire (7:17, 25:28-29)
But His Love for us is mostly seen in the reason WHY He has revealed Guidance. In Christianity for example, people are born with sin that supposedly was given by Adam. The Quran rejects this idea as nobody can carry the burden of another.
6:164 Say, "Shall I seek anyone other than God as a lord when He is the Sustainer of all things? No ‘self’ benefits but from its own works, and none bears the load of another. Then unto your Lord is your return and He will make you understand wherein you differed.
The concept of carrying the stain of sin of Adam and then freeing us through the suffering of Jesus is contradicting, and illogical. In this whole ideology there is no room at all for responsibility of a person's own deeds. And the relationship between God and man is unfair as it is God who decided when to punish and when to free a person.
The Quran denies this ideology and calls it man-made. The Quran frees man of this self-imposed concept of 'sin' and says everybody gets a fair chance. He has made fixed laws which everyone can follow to attain perfection. There are no personal interests for God in our creation. And the same holds for Revelation.
Revelations were send to unite people and free them from the shackles of human will. Laws are not based on the elite's need, or the opinion of the majority, as both of these do not coincide with reality and will not create equal chances for all humans.
The System of the Quran, Deen, creates a society were every single individual will have the same oppertunity, benefit and means to develop his Self.
The Love of God in the Quran is shown through the Laws He demands to be established in the society. As love for God in the tampered Gospel and Thora does not free anyone from the burden of the unjust in society. The love they experience is self-imposed and the 'result' of God's love can only be experienced in the Hereafter in Christian theology.
In Quranic theology, the Love of God is directly experienced through the caring laws He demands to be followed by society. His system is like the womb of a mother, He is Rahman. This is the difference between the Realistic God of the Quran, and that of the tampered Bible.
So when you want to explain and the understand the Love of God in the Quran and that of the Bible, you must compare the 2:
-The Love of God in the Bible still leaves only with a feeling and a waiting of the result in the Hereafter. This Love does not help to create peace on earth or help us create a peaceful and fair society. People carry the burden of sin, while never having participated in the deed done, and then are freed by the one who put the unfair burden upon us. This slapping you for the deed of somebody else, and then slaps himself to free you of the burden of that somebody elses's deed. This is unfair love. It is a bit like the love people experience for their hostage-taker that develops through fear and feeling of bonding. Although Christianity creates high moral under its followers, it doesn't create solutions for mankind, and thus God's Love is moved only to the Next world. People are left to themselves and must through a hard path of trial and error create better life conditions. The high status of the West was not created through the guidance in the Bible, but through centuries of borrowing and developing ideas and concepts. They had to develop their own system without God's guidance, and thus people suffered under this trial and error process. A very limited love if you ask me.
-In the Quran, God's Love is expressed through the Laws He demands to be followed by us. Because these Laws create an equal and just society where everybody is allowed to be free and to be taken care of, so everybody can develop them Selves to the fullest. It creates a perfect society that prepares people for the Hereafter. There are no real class-difference and all wealth is spread out over the people so all can benefit. The Love is not felt, it is directly experienced. Nobody carries the burden of another, and all are judged according to fair and direct Laws so all people will know how they are judged. Rewards are created through actions that lead to developing of mankind. People can skip the trial and error experience and are directly guided to the best ways for society. God has not left them alone, no person in society, no human on earth, He guides them all to the right path of living directly. And so His Love is not shifted to the Hereafter, but to both worlds, here and the next. His Love is felt and experienced through the Laws that create equal circumstances for all humans on Earth, He tells them how to develop themselves and others. The Quran can guide a society and contains all it needs to create the basis for a strong and fair society. It pushed the First Muslims from nothing to the kings of the world.
The God of the Quran does not leave any path open, He explains all fields, so mankind is not left alone in any field. Justice, Politics, State, Individual, Marriage, Social, Science, Theology, Spiritual, all matters are explained, so mankind knows directly what he is up too and what is expected of him.
This is the difference........
93:3 Your Lord has never forsaken you, nor did He ever forget you.
[‘Qala’ = Forget things unattended in a cooking pan. God has always provided mankind with what their minds and bodies need and ensures that they do not trail behind in the process of Evolution.]
21:10 O Mankind! Now We have revealed unto you a Book that is all about you and it will give you eminence. Will you not, then, use reason? (21:24, 23:70, 43:43-44)
22:78 Strive hard in God’s Cause, with all the striving that is due to Him. It is He Who has elected you to carry the Message and has placed no hardship in religion, the creed of your father Abraham (2:143, 2:288) It is He Who has named you (Muslimeen) Muslims in the bygone days and now in this Revelation. That the Messenger may be a witness for you and you be witnesses for all mankind! (You shall be the watchers over people that no community oppresses the other) So, establish the Divine System and set up the Just Economic Order, and hold fast unto God. He is your Lord Supreme, and how excellent is this Giver of support!
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tammyswofford
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:59 pm
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Difference b/w God of Anger and Love
Salam Abdullah,
Perhaps the greater question is: "Does Allah forgive?" The Qur'an gives three words which are linked to forgiveness. The most appropriate would be the usage of the word Ghaffar in describing Allah, as the one capable of forgiving again and again. As such Allah retains the title of Rahman, or most gracious, with an ability to extend forgiveness again and again. Mortal man, has the capacity for rahim, or mercy which is an act of the will. As such he can engage forgiveness of the level such as expressed in Al-Baqarah 110, which expresses forgiveness as the ability to overlook an offense. Mortal man, does not have infinite capacity for forgiveness. As such, we reach a point where our patience snaps and we move into a revenge modality.
As usual, I will have to pleasantly state that I disagree with Respected Arnold regarding Christians and our beliefs. smile
Tammy Swofford
Perhaps the greater question is: "Does Allah forgive?" The Qur'an gives three words which are linked to forgiveness. The most appropriate would be the usage of the word Ghaffar in describing Allah, as the one capable of forgiving again and again. As such Allah retains the title of Rahman, or most gracious, with an ability to extend forgiveness again and again. Mortal man, has the capacity for rahim, or mercy which is an act of the will. As such he can engage forgiveness of the level such as expressed in Al-Baqarah 110, which expresses forgiveness as the ability to overlook an offense. Mortal man, does not have infinite capacity for forgiveness. As such, we reach a point where our patience snaps and we move into a revenge modality.
As usual, I will have to pleasantly state that I disagree with Respected Arnold regarding Christians and our beliefs. smile
Tammy Swofford
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Arnold Yasin Mol
Difference b/w God of Anger and Love
Dear Tammy,
Does the Bible give a solution on how to create a perfect society? Does it explain Economic issues? Political issues? Law issues?
The answer with all respect is NO, it gives and teaches High moral, but it cannot guide mankind further then the ethical level. The parts on how to rule society have been left out from the original Revelation because it didn't serve the elite. Ethics are not enough to create a society. What Muslims did in 100 years, took the West a 1000 years. This is the difference between trial and error and direct guidance.
The original Revelations of all the Prophets were similair to the Quran, but they have been tampered under control of the elite and clergy. Because of this, the means to rule and develop society are left out of the Bible and was up to the human themselves. The God of the Bible is the same as that of the Quran, sadly the Guidance is not the same anymore through human interference.
Because of this, the concept of God's Love cannot be judged correctly based on the Bible, as the real reason for Revelation was edited out of the Bible. The Love of God as is interpretated now from the Bible, is the Love of salvation and ethics. For the rest, the human had to guess himself what to do.
In the Quran, the complete Guidance is present, and thus the correct concept of God's Love can be formed. This Love is based on creating a society based on God's Laws where every human is free and has all it needs. In this Love, a human can fulfill all its needs and develop himself to the fullest, it doesn not have to endure long periods of trial and error and oppression. The love is not directed only to the ones who believe in the Quran, everyone living in the State can benefit from it. This Love goes beyond religious groups or ideologies, it is unconditional care in this Life, and if you respond correctly to Reality, also in the Next.
Does the Bible give a solution on how to create a perfect society? Does it explain Economic issues? Political issues? Law issues?
The answer with all respect is NO, it gives and teaches High moral, but it cannot guide mankind further then the ethical level. The parts on how to rule society have been left out from the original Revelation because it didn't serve the elite. Ethics are not enough to create a society. What Muslims did in 100 years, took the West a 1000 years. This is the difference between trial and error and direct guidance.
The original Revelations of all the Prophets were similair to the Quran, but they have been tampered under control of the elite and clergy. Because of this, the means to rule and develop society are left out of the Bible and was up to the human themselves. The God of the Bible is the same as that of the Quran, sadly the Guidance is not the same anymore through human interference.
Because of this, the concept of God's Love cannot be judged correctly based on the Bible, as the real reason for Revelation was edited out of the Bible. The Love of God as is interpretated now from the Bible, is the Love of salvation and ethics. For the rest, the human had to guess himself what to do.
In the Quran, the complete Guidance is present, and thus the correct concept of God's Love can be formed. This Love is based on creating a society based on God's Laws where every human is free and has all it needs. In this Love, a human can fulfill all its needs and develop himself to the fullest, it doesn not have to endure long periods of trial and error and oppression. The love is not directed only to the ones who believe in the Quran, everyone living in the State can benefit from it. This Love goes beyond religious groups or ideologies, it is unconditional care in this Life, and if you respond correctly to Reality, also in the Next.
-
tammyswofford
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:59 pm
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Difference b/w God of Anger and Love
Thank you Arnold,
You always teach me something and for that I remain grateful.
Tammy
You always teach me something and for that I remain grateful.
Tammy