tajweed

sayyid-seydou · Post by **sayyid-seydou** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:20 pm

Can somebody tell me where the "tajweed" thing is from?
Why do muslims sing the Quran?
Is "tajweed" truth or falsehood?

Ahmed Mateen · Post by **Ahmed Mateen** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:55 pm

Salam brother

Would you please explain first what problems do you find with tajweed and singing fo Quran? I am not discouraging you but it has become a fashion to critisize anything in Islam.

Salam

sayyid-seydou · Post by **sayyid-seydou** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:22 pm

There is a misunderstanding: i'm not critizing the Quran- i just started to read Quran in arabic (from Al fatiha to around Baqara verse 40) and alhamdu lilah gave me BOOSt in my eiman (in additon of the translations).
I'm just curious of knowing why is the Quran is being singed and where are the rules of singing it coming from?
I know that God allowed all good things as pointed out inQXP translation points out:

7:32 Say, "Who has forbidden the beauty and nice things Allah has brought
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forth for His servants, and the pure clean things of your choice?” Say, “Such things are for those in this world who practically believe in the Divine Laws. And on the Day of Resurrection they will be exclusively for those who attained Conviction.” We thus explain Our Laws for those who make good use of what they learn".

I'm just curious about it.

Salam,

Arnold Yasin Mol · Post by **Arnold Yasin Mol** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:37 pm

Salaam Sayyid,

Mateen also did not say you questioned the Quran, he reffered too that it has become a trend to critize any non-Quranic custom, which is not always necessary. As for your question, I leave that up to dear brother Mateen :D

Ahmed Mateen · Post by **Ahmed Mateen** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:26 pm

Dear Brother Sayyid,

Here you can find a brief history of Qiraats: http://quranicideology.com/briefhistoryqiraat.pdf

Salam

Sidqi · Post by **Sidqi** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:07 am

God appreciates beauty. Thats why he made beautiful thing, colors, shapes,people and their voices.
So why not use them in a pleasant way.

sidqi. ca

Arnold Yasin Mol · Post by **Arnold Yasin Mol** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:59 am

Salaam Aleikum,

The Quran in its essence is cultureless. It is only based on Arabic language, not on its culture. All societies can keep their cultures and practices as long as it doesn't contradict with the Quranic Permanent Values. Only the Government is changed according to the Quranic principle. When we at OurBeacon say that something is non-Quranic, it means it was not part of the Revelation, and thus not part of rules and determines Islamic Laws and Goals. But this doesn't mean the thing is forbidden or imediately wrong in its essence.

The current practices at Mecca on the Hajj are non-Quranic and are thus not part of the Quranic Hajj, which is a Global conference for mankind to resolve their issues [hajj from hajja=to argue/debate-probe a headwound-to go on a noble goal] The old practices we see now at Hajj, were copied from the ancient Pagan Sunworship of the pre-Islamic times. They were conformed to Monotheisme in certain details, but still that makes them non-Quranic.

But not forbidden or meant to be ridiculed.
When the Muslims eventually will accept these are not part of God's System, they will eventually stop practicing them.

When it comes to reciting the Quran, it has become an art-form, and indeed it is beautifull. Yes, it is sad people can recite the Quran but cannot grasp it. And its practice is non-Quranic, but it is not forbidden at all. God clearly says:

7:32 Say, "Who has forbidden the beauty and nice things God has brought forth for His servants, and the pure clean things of your choice?” Say, “Such things are for those in this world who believe in the Divine Laws. And on the Day of Resurrection they will be exclusively for those who attained Conviction.” We thus explain Our Laws for those who make good use of what they learn".

We must focus on making people return to the Quran, make them understand it again. We must reform our ideas and thoughts in the Islamic World. We also must rethink every practice to see if they serve mankind in any way. This should be your focus.

Don't mix up 'Non-Quranic' with 'Forbidden', Non-Quranic only means 'Not ordained by Allah'.

Mahmood Qasmi · Post by **Mahmood Qasmi** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:47 pm

Can somebody tell me where the "tajweed" thing is from?
Why do muslims sing the Quran?
Is "tajweed" truth or falsehood?

I guess being a Mujaouwid Qari myself, I could tell you a bit about Tajwid.

The essence of Tajwid comes from conveying a vocal rendition of the Quran by putting the context within the ambience/atmosphere. It is a way to convey the meaning through the combination of melody and various chords (there are 5 fundamental ones and various derivatives) to convey feeling. The Qari can use a combination of these "Maqaamaat" to construct the Tajwid that in his opinion fits the meaning of the verses to be recited. However, most reciters start and end on the "Bayaati" Maqaam.

This method of recitation (as opposed to Tartil) is traditionally believed to have come from Egypt where people were invited to 'beautify' the Quran with their voices.

The use of musical instruments has generally been considered taboo, so the only other logical choice was the use of the human voice in a manner best describing the "Bayaan" of the Quran which is neither prose nor poetry.

It is safe to assume that Mujaouwid style does not date back to the times of the exalted prophet Muhammad and is an Ajami construct that morphed out of Tartil, in that Different tones were then packaged by people overtime. This turned into a style that uses their combination through chord and scale changes from one verse (or set of verses) to another.

I tend to think that Mujaouwid style of recitation is much stronger and potent since it takes into account the meaning of the verse. I recall a recitation of Surah Qaaf by Qari Mustafa Ismaa'il of Egypt where he read "Qaaf", then went to another portion of the Quran to explain what Qaaf was trying to imply (interestingly enough, his rendition was quite similar to the meaning of Qaaf in the QXP) and then started again with Qaaf and proceeded to subsequent verses of the chapter.

So you see, similar to the manner where the Quran can be written in simple Naskh script, and then in Kufic and Diwani scripts, the same way it can be vocalized with different tones.

I cannot call that singing since there is no rythm/tempo involved. Only a scalar and non-uniform melody with various chord changes.

I hope this helps.

Ahmed Mateen · Post by **Ahmed Mateen** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:32 pm

Salaam

I was reading a passage from a book "Why I am not a Muslim", saying the idea of reciting Qur'an is borrowed from Zoroastrians:

"The concept of acquiring religious merit by reciting various parts of the Koran is an echo of the Persian belief in the merit of reciting the Avestan Vendidad. In both creeds, the recital of the sacred Book relieves man of any demerits acquired on earth; it is essential, even, for the salvation of the soul. Both Muslims and Zoroastrians read the Holy Book for several days after the death of a member of family."

I don't know how much it is true but since we acquire many things from Zoroastrians so it is possible that reciting of Qur'an also borrowed from them.

Mahmood Qasmi · Post by **Mahmood Qasmi** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:48 pm

It is possible since many of the chords+scales (Maqamaat) refer to names of Mesopotamian origin.

However, many folk songs and stories used to be recited by nomads and storytellers throughout Arabia, the Fertile Crescent, Mesopotamia and Anatolia. Both Zoroastrians and Muslims could have borrowed from them.

Tajwid is a later addition to the manner in which the Quran was conveyed and has nothing to do with why one should not be (N1I) Muslim :)

Salaam

I was reading a passage from a book "Why I am not a Muslim", saying the idea of reciting Qur'an is borrowed from Zoroastrians:

"The concept of acquiring religious merit by reciting various parts of the Koran is an echo of the Persian belief in the merit of reciting the Avestan Vendidad. In both creeds, the recital of the sacred Book relieves man of any demerits acquired on earth; it is essential, even, for the salvation of the soul. Both Muslims and Zoroastrians read the Holy Book for several days after the death of a member of family."

I don't know how much it is true but since we acquire many things from Zoroastrians so it is possible that reciting of Qur'an also borrowed from them.

Ahmed Mateen · Post by **Ahmed Mateen** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:53 pm

Salam,

If you read the whole book may be you could understand it :wink: , here is a review of that book:

http://oslab.snu.ac.kr/os/evolution/%BF%AA%BB%E7/Why%20I%20am%20not%20a%20Muslim.htm

Mahmood Qasmi · Post by **Mahmood Qasmi** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:09 pm

Salam mateen,
Thanks for the link... It is basically the same set of arguments used by several people today and is mainly based on tradition and traditional translations.

Ahmed Mateen · Post by **Ahmed Mateen** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:17 pm

w/Salam brother

Yes, the writer based his argument on history, tradition and traditional translations.

N2I is a killer!

Dr. Shabbir · Post by **Dr. Shabbir** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:24 pm

If we do not disregard understanding of the Qur'an, I see the audible QIR'AT and TAJWEED a blessing. The Glorious Book has a magnificent, superb, matchless rhythm about it.

In fact, Our Beacon has many examples where non-Muslims have embraced Islam getting enthralled by someone reciting the Qur'an in a beautiful manner. Even some Kuffar of the Quraish of Makkah used to secretly listen to the Sahaba reciting the Qur'an at nights!

I think, the marvelous rhytm - neither poetry, nor prose - is yet another miracle of the Qur'an.