passport found-yep them arabs did it !

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abdalaziz ariff

passport found-yep them arabs did it !

Post by abdalaziz ariff »



If group of people can pull this thru, we do not know how many they have pulled before, how many they are pulling it at present and what lies ahead in the future ?


https://mads.thekeyofknowledge.net/lib/911/I_911.php
Dr Shabbir, Florida

passport found-yep them arabs did it !

Post by Dr Shabbir, Florida »



How do you fish out such gems from 'bottom of the ocean' :-)


https://mads.thekeyofknowledge.net/lib/911/I_911.php
Aarun UK Truther

passport found-yep them arabs did it !

Post by Aarun UK Truther »



Be careful you spreading these Truth Bombs and that you may be called a Conspiracy Theorist LOL, not that will will bother you I'm sure. Anyone with a rational mind can see that know 9-11 was an inside job. Even kids who watch the Twin Towers free fall can tell it was a demolition job.
jawaid ahmed

passport found-yep them arabs did it !

Post by jawaid ahmed »




http://www.911myths.com/html/passport_recovered.html


Passport Recovered


[Home] [Hijackers] [Passport Recovered]


The story...


The passport of one of the hijackers was found at the WTC. It's clearly impossible for any personal effects to survive the impact and explosion, therefore it must have been planted.


Our take...


Our first reaction is why would they bother? What does it add to the story? There was no need to “plant passports”. We’ve never seen anyone say “they must have been on the planes because look, the NYPD found that passport”. It’s completely unnecessary, and is only ever used as evidence of an “inside job”.


But could the passport have escaped destruction? Explosions are unpredictable things, it’s surprising what can survive, and there are accounts of personal effects being retrieved from other passengers. Here’s one from Flight 175.


"Orange County, CA., Sept. 11 - Lisa Anne Frost was 22 and had just graduated from Boston University in May 2001 with two degrees and multiple academic and service honors. She had worked all summer in Boston before coming home, finally, to California to start her new life. The Rancho Santa Margarita woman was on United Flight 175 on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when it became the second plane to slam into the World Trade Center...


Her parents, Tom and Melanie Frost, have spent two years knowing they will never understand why.


A few days before the first anniversary of our daughter's murder, we were notified that they had found a piece of her in the piles and piles of gritty rubble of the World Trade Center that had been hauled out to Staten Island. It was Lisa's way, we believe, of telling us she wasn't lost.


In February, the day of the Columbia tragedy, we got word they'd found her United Airlines Mileage Plus card. It was found very near where they'd found a piece of her right hip. We imagine that she used the card early on the morning of Sept. 11 to get on the plane and just stuck it in her back pocket, probably her right back pocket, instead of in her purse. They have found no other personal effects".

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:tI2PQRqfJiIJ:www.msnbc.com/local/MYOC/M324557.asp


It’s a card rather than paper, and wasn’t ejected from the building, but this does demonstrate that not everything was incinerated. And it’s not alone. There are similar reports from the other crash scenes, including a drivers licence and luggage tag recovered from Flight 77 and even more from Flight 93.


United Airlines Flight 93 slammed into the earth Sept. 11 near Shanksville, Somerset County, at more than 500 mph, with a ferocity that disintegrated metal, bone and flesh. It took more than three months to identify the remains of the 40 passengers and crew, and, by process of elimination, the four hijackers...


But searchers also gathered surprisingly intact mementos of lives lost.


Those items, such as a wedding ring and other jewelry, photos, credit cards, purses and their contents, shoes, a wallet and currency, are among seven boxes of identified personal effects salvaged from the site.

http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011230flight931230p3.asp


There’s some support for the idea from other crash sites, then, but of course surviving the initial impact is only one problem. Others ask how could one passport be recovered so quickly from the rubble of the trade centre collapses? Fortunately the answer is a simple one. It wasn’t. Here’s the official account of what happened.


The passport was recovered by NYPD Detective Yuk H. Chin from a male passerby in a business suit, about 30 years old. The passerby left before being identified, while debris was falling from WTC 2. The tower collapsed shortly afterwards. The detective then gave the passport to the FBI on 9/11.

Page 40

http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrTrav_Ch2.pdf


The suggestion here is that the passport was found amongst the debris on the street.

Other accounts certainly suggest some parts of the plane were left outside the building.


On the ground, they saw an odd shape. Reiss looked closer: It was the nose gear of an airplane...


A part of the landing gear landed five blocks south

Page 20, “102 Minutes”

Jim Dwyer and Kevin Flynn


After the first crash, the debris, plane parts and body parts were all over the area.

http://zibili.com/sept11/91103.htm


This photo is particularly interesting.


Flight 11 Seat Cushion Medium

(Download the full-size version by clicking here).


As you can see, there’s debris on the ground, but not piles of it. A passport would stand out.


Better still is the caption of the photo on its original page: “On Albany Street, two blocks south of WTC 2, Two men examine a seat cushion from AA Flight 11. 8:52 a.m”. A cushion, from Flight 11? An eminently flammable object that was passed through the building, still recognisable, rather than burned to ashes? Plainly we can’t prove the caption is correct, although it would explain why two passer-bys have stopped to look (an ordinary cushion from the building probably isn’t going to attract the same attention).


Meanwhile another story in the New York Times said at least two items of mail on the 9/11 planes were recovered:


On Oct. 12, it arrived inside a second envelope at Mrs. Snyder's modest white house on Main Street here, and the instant she took it out and saw it, she says, ''chills just went over me.'' It was singed and crumpled. A chunk was ripped out, giving the bottom of the envelope she had sent the look of a jagged skyline. Mrs. Snyder's lyrical script had blurred into the scorched paper. The stamp, depicting a World War II sailor embracing a woman welcoming him home, was intact.


Along with the letter was a note: ''To whom it may concern. This was found floating around the street in downtown New York. I am sorry if you suffered any loss in this tragedy. Sincerely, a friend in New York!''


Since then, Mrs. Snyder, a customer service representative at a grocery store, has discovered that she has one of only two pieces of mail known to have been recovered from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At least one auction house has contacted her, saying she could sell the letter for tens of thousands of dollars.


One Letter's Odyssey Helps Mend a Wound

New York Times

December 20, 2001


What else was on the street, and why couldn’t a passport have made it intact?


If you’re still not sure, preferring to go with intution and say survival was impossible, then consider this story from the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster. The craft broke up on re-entry, 40 miles about the earth, and debris fell over a wide area. Amongst this was one of the experiments involving tiny worms.


The worms and moss were in the same nine-pound locker located in the mid-deck of the space shuttle. The worms were placed in six canisters, each holding eight petri dishes.


The worms, which are about the size of the tip of a pencil, were part of an experiment testing a new synthetic nutrient solution. The worms, which have a life cycle of between seven and 10 days, were four or five generations removed from the original worms placed on Columbia in January.

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/sts107_worms_030501.html


Remarkably, not only were the canisters retrieved, but the worms were still alive (the above link tells you more). Who would have believed that? Not the scientist in charge of the experiment, who said in the same story:


``It's pretty astonishing to get the possibility of data after all that has happened,'' Sack said. ``We never expected it. We expected a molten mass.''


In fact if we wanted to start a “Columbia space shuttle crash never happened” conspiracy site then that would make great “evidence”, because it goes against what you’d expect. And there’s a great quote, too. But then maybe intuition doesn’t tell the whole story, and more can survive explosions than you think.
jawaid ahmed

passport found-yep them arabs did it !

Post by jawaid ahmed »




https://www.quora.com/Where-were-the-terrorists-passports-found-after-the-9-11-attack


Where were the terrorists’ passports found after the 9/11 attack?

1 Question and Answer


Paul Harrison

Answered March 17, 2018 · Author has 207 answers and 347.8K answer views

Where were the terrorists’ passports found after the 9/11 attack?

According to the testimony of Susan Ginsberg who worked on the PENTTBOM investigation -


"Four of the hijackers' passports have survived in whole or in part. Two were recovered from the crash site of United Airlines flight 93 in Pennsylvania. These are the passports of Ziad Jarrah and Saeed al Ghamdi. One belonged to a hijacker on American Airlines flight 11. This is the passport of Satam al Suqami. A passerby picked it up and gave it to a NYPD detective shortly before the World Trade Center towers collapsed. A fourth passport was recovered from luggage that did not make it from a Portland flight to Boston on to the connecting flight which was American Airlines flight 11. This is the passport of Abdul Aziz al Omari."


"In addition to these four, some digital copies of the hijackers passports were recovered in post-9/11 operations. Two of the passports that have survived, those of Satam al Suqami and Abdul Aziz al Omari, were clearly doctored. To avoid getting into classified detail, we will just state that these were manipulated in a fraudulent manner in ways that have been associated with al Qaeda."


Much has been made of the passports recovered,as though this is in someway suspicious. Firstly, it should be noted that the passports have little to no evidential value (other than the signs of tampering) - they do not prove who was on the plane or who committed the attacks. They told investigators little that they wouldn’t already have known from the Flight Manifests. Clearly, if you are going to plant evidence, you don’t plant evidence that is meaningless.


Secondly, some have stated that there is no way that the passports could have survived. Its important to note that none of the passports survived the collapse of the towers - the only one to survive from either flights 175 or flight 11 was picked up prior to the collapse of the towers. Its also important to note that it wasn’t the only fragile item to survive - at least two letters also survived the impact -


A NATION CHALLENGED: AFTERMATH; One Letter's Odyssey Helps Mend a Wound


There are also reports of other personal items from passengers having been found.


With regards to flight 93 it has been suggested that there is no way that a paper passport could have survived the massive impact involved in the crash. To answer that I point you to flight 1771 - a plane that was hijacked and intentionally crashed at a speed estimated to have been in excess of mach 1. The hijacker had written a suicide note on a travel sickness bag prior to starting the attack - this paper bag was recovered from the crash site -


Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 - Wikipedia


To give an idea of the intensity of 1771’s crash the following is a statement from Bill Wammock, the first detective on the scene -


“nothing that resembled an airliner... we went on for hours, before we heard the news reports of a missing airliner, believing that we were dealing with a small airplane full of newspapers that had crashed. We saw no pieces of the aircraft that were larger than, maybe, a human hand. It did not look like a passenger aircraft.”
jawaid ahmed

passport found-yep them arabs did it !

Post by jawaid ahmed »




http://www.911myths.com/html/hijackers2.html


Hijackers


[Home] [Investigations, more] [Articles] [911Physics] [Hijackers]


Some of the hijackers were trained by the US government, at Pensacola Naval Air Station.

http://www.911myths.com/html/trained.html


Our article on this topic is supposedly debunked as follows:


My Response:


Why doesn't Mike mention the following:


THREE OF THE alleged hijackers listed their address on drivers licenses and car registrations as the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Fla.—known as the “Cradle of U.S. Navy Aviation,” according to a high-ranking U.S. Navy source.


Why would the hijackers put their home addresses as being the Naval Air Station if they didn't train there? Or did the Hijackers manage to steal the identifies of several Arabs who just coincidently were being trained by the US Military?

http://911physics.atspace.com/Pages/Debunking911Myths/Hijackers.htm


There are at least two issues here.


The first is that we we don't dispute there were a group of three individuals, with similar names to the hijackers, who "listed their address on drivers licenses and car registrations as the Naval Air Station in Pensacola". What we do dispute is that it's proven these were the hijackers: the article certainly doesn't do that.


Chris is also using an old version of our page. The current version points out that one of these individuals, Saeed Alghamdi, registered a car in March 1997. If that's the same person as the alleged hijacker, and his publicised birth date is correct, then that means he was registering a car and learning to fly at the age of 17. If he was in the same group for the 1996 date they mention, maybe 16. Another conspiracy site puts this group in Florida since 1992, which would make him 12, another of the individuals would have been around 13. Seems to us like another strong indication that the Newsweek group were not the same people as the hijackers.


Passport Recovered:


The passport of one of the hijackers was found at the WTC. It's clearly impossible for any personal effects to survive the impact and explosion, therefore it must have been planted.

http://www.911myths.com/html/passport_recovered.html


Chris debunks our page on the passport by telling the world that... it's irrelevant.


My Response:


Here it would appear 911Myths is attacking a straw man, no serious 9/11 researcher has ever sighted this a key piece of evidence. You can choose to believe that Mohamed Atta's passport did survive. However this story like many others was later retracted. If Mike had done some serious research he would know this. I think it's pretty sad he is trying to prove something which is now denied by the US Government.

http://911physics.atspace.com/Pages/Debunking911Myths/Hijackers.htm


Accurate? Ah, no. Let's itemise the issues.


"no serious 9/11 researcher has ever sighted this a key piece of evidence"


Really? Here's something from a David Ray Griffin address of March 2006:


Evidence was also apparently planted. The passport of one of the hijackers on Flight 11 was allegedly found in the rubble, having survived the fire caused by the crash into the north tower and also whatever caused everything else in this building except the steel to be pulverized.84 As a story in the Guardian said, "the idea that passport had escaped from that inferno unsinged would [test] the credulity of the staunchest supporter of the FBI's crackdown on terrorism."85

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/911-Myth-Reality-Griffin30mar06.htm


If Griffin isn't a significant example of a 9/11 Researcher, then who is? If the one example he gives of evidence being planted isn't "key", then what is?


"You can choose to believe that Mohamed Atta's passport did survive"


No you can't, actually -- it wasn't Atta's passport. Early reports said so, incorrectly, but it was actually Satam al-Suqami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satam_al-Suqami ).


"However this story like many others was later retracted. If Mike had done some serious research he would know this. I think it's pretty sad he is trying to prove something which is now denied by the US Government."


Denied by the US Government? Far from it: the 9/11 Commission explain how the passport was recovered in a footnote to the Terrorist Travel staff statement:


109 The passport was recovered by NYPD Detective Yuk H. Chin from a male passerby in a business suit, about 30 years old. The passerby left before being identified, while debris was falling from WTC 2. The tower collapsed shortly thereafter. The detective then gave the passport to the FBI on 9/11. See FBI report, interview of Detective Chin, Sept. 12, 2001.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrTrav_Ch2.pdf


Perhaps Chris needs to do a little more "serious research" of his own.


Still alive:


Many of the hijackers as named by America are still alive.

http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html


We make lengthy, referenced claims in these pages to show why the "still alive" stories fall far short of real proof, but Chris thinks he can debunk them. In a single sentence.


My Response:


His response is not true, for the reason that the Hijackers saw there names and photos on television and actually went to the American embassy in Saudi Arabia and told the authorities that they wanted there names and photos taken off the FBI most wanted list.

http://911physics.atspace.com/Pages/Debunking911Myths/Hijackers.htm


Okay, let's look at the issues here.


"the Hijackers saw there names and photos on television..."


He's attempting to tell you that everyone saw their photos on the TV. We don't think that's the case, and Chris provides no evidence to show otherwise.


Chris also fails to tell you that every one of the "still alive" stories we address appeared before the FBI released their list of names and photos, on September 27th 2001. So where's the evidence that any photos that did appear on TV originated with the US Government?


And Chris also fails to tell you that CNN appear to have released at least one photo of the wrong man (Said al-Ghamdi), and possibly another (Waleed Al-Shehri). These represented errors by the media, not the FBI or the Government.


Chris also completely ignores issues we raise, like the interview with a brother of Wail and Waleed Al-Shehri, where clearly they're both missing, and presumed dead. Or the fact that Saudi Arabia have accepted that 15 Saudi citizens were indeed involved in the attacks.


So are we "debunked", then? You decide.


Flight school dropouts:

How could such precision attacks have been carried out by a bunch of flight school dropouts? It's just not possible.

http://www.911myths.com/html/flight_school_dropouts.html


My Response:


All he seems to be investigating is whether or not Hani Hanjour was a poor pilot. At best he was said to have below average to average piloting skills. Mike fails to discuss the difficulty of the maneuvers the alleged hijackers supposedly made.


Russ Wittenburg a former Vietnam Combat and Commercial Pilot says there is no way any commercial pilot yet alone an amateur like Hani Hanjour could of possibly flown "Flight 77" in the manner it was flown.


Former Vietnam Combat and Commercial Pilot Firm Believer 9/11 Was Inside Government Job; An Experienced Boeing 757/767 Pilot, He Says 'No Way' Could a Novice Fly the 'Big Birds' He Knew So Well

http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/articles/article/1518131/29392.htm

http://911physics.atspace.com/Pages/Debunking911Myths/Hijackers.htm


The issues here:


"All he seems to be investigating is whether or not Hani Hanjour was a poor pilot."


Seems like a relevant point to us? As it addressing the claim that they were all "flight school dropouts", which you do see made occasionally.


"At best he was said to have below average to average piloting skills"


No, his best reference is here, in a 9/11 Commission footnote to Chapter 7:


170. FBI report, "Summary of Penttbom Investigation," Feb. 29, 2004, pp. 52­57. Hanjour successfully conducted a challenging certification flight supervised by an instructor at Congressional Air Charters of Gaithersburg, Maryland, landing at a small airport with a difficult approach.The instructor thought Hanjour may have had training from a military pilot because he used a terrain recognition system for navigation. Eddie Shalev interview (Apr.9, 2004).


"Mike fails to discuss the difficulty of the maneuvers the alleged hijackers supposedly made."


We were quite honest in what we said on the page:


"People will still say that the Pentagon attack was too difficult for Hanjour to have pulled off, and we don't know whether that is true or not (and don’t have any personal experience to add anything new to that debate)."


Further, Chris is commenting on an old version. The latest has quotes from pilots saying that the hijackers could have carried out the attacks, from articles like http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_1253.shtml and http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2006/05/19/askthepilot186/


Remote control:


There were no hijackers on the 9/11 planes. Instead they were flown by remote control.

http://www.911myths.com/html/remote_control.html


My Response:


Mike's response is basically that the planes could not of been remote controlled because they would of had to have had several cameras aboard them. This is not true at all, the planes could simply be programmed to fly exactly where they wanted to, how do you think autopilot works?

http://911physics.atspace.com/Pages/Debunking911Myths/Hijackers.htm


Chris might wish to brush away latency issues and pretend they don't exist, but it's not going to work. Autopilots do not guarantee to get you "exactly" to a particular point in space, especially when you're flying at low altitude and very high speed. Wind speed, direction, variations in the control response time, tiny errors in the planes attitude will all have an effect on your position.


To compensate for issues like this, you need a feedback loop, a means of finding out where you are and correcting your position if necessary. This means you will have some errors (GPS isn't perfect), and you'll also have a delay (it takes time to process the results). How significant are these issues? We don't know, but reports of the Flight 77 approach suggest it wouldn't have taken an error of very many metres for the plane to have crashed short of its target.


This response doesn't get close to debunking the latency issues, then, and that's just the start. There are still questions to be raised about whether it's plausible that any extra "remote control" unit could be added to the plane, how it would have worked, whether the pilots and maintenance engineers would have noticed, why the pilots failed to alert the authorities about what was going on (assuming Chris believes the actual flights were remotely controlled, and not other planes), and more.


Thomas Olmsted's autopsy list:


There are inconsistencies in the numbers of passengers listed for Flight 77, leading some to believe that there were no hijackers at all.

http://www.911myths.com/html/missing_arabs.html


My Response:


Since this information came from the US Government we cannot conclude that it is at all accurate or that it has any truth to it what so ever. It may just be a coincidence that none of the hijackers bodies were identified, but how many coincidences are you going to believe?

http://911physics.atspace.com/Pages/Debunking911Myths/Hijackers.htm


Breaking this down:


"Since this information came from the US Government we cannot conclude that it is at all accurate or that it has any truth to it what so ever"


Which information? Olmsted's autopsy list, or the news reports we quote, or...? Chris doesn't say.


"It may just be a coincidence that none of the hijackers bodies were identified, but how many coincidences are you going to believe?"


Here we see Chris engaging in the manufacture of coincidences. He hopes that if he can invent enough of them, you'll be swayed to see his point of view. The reality, of course, is that it's not a "coincidence" at all. As we point out, the identifications of Flight 77 passengers were by DNA, and there were no samples available from the hijackers relatives at the time. Hardly a coincidence when Saudi Arabia didn't even accept 15 of their citizens were involved until February of 2002.


The reality of Olmsted's "autopsy lists" is that they only list the people on Flight 77 who were identified by the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. People who were not identified by the AFIP won’t be listed there, and so the lists cannot be used to show that the hijackers were not on the plane. That point is not debunked here.

jawaid ahmed

passport found-yep them arabs did it !

Post by jawaid ahmed »




http://www.911myths.com/indexold.html


Read conspiracy accounts debunked. by sensible people, not lizards or spirit beings in the sky.


Those that have a certain mindset see only what they want to see, but you have to read alternative viewpoints to get a more balanced truer picture.
jawaid ahmed

passport found-yep them arabs did it !

Post by jawaid ahmed »




Arab terrorists blow up things and themselves, it is their modus operandi.


If you were going to frame arabs, you would not create a fiasco of plane crashing when your intention was to blow the building up like arabs would have done it.


Would the act of plane crashing not be enough to show how despicable arabs are and use this 'excuse' to attack the middle east?


How do you get 100's of men working to plant tonnes of explosives in multiple buildings without being detected? Chance of detection, the plot foiled, hang the modern day Guy Fawkes, would make this an idiotic idea when the genius had already had the planes idea in the bag and ready to unleash its effects and consequences.


As soon as someone blows their nose there is a conspiracy about it, as far too many people have far too much time on their hands to make things up. Long live Omar Khayyam and tales of conspiracy nights!
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