Several times I have witnessed a person presenting some information about Islam on some possibly western online forum. What ends up happening in almost every such case is that the westerner simply asks "What makes you such an authority on Islam?” I noticed that regardless of how well informed the reply may have been, it was completely irrelevant since a westerner would again retort by "What makes you such an authority on Islam?”
My understanding is that the very concept of a Muslim seeking authority on Islam is meaningless and redundant since Allah is the only authority on Islam. Also, in an Islamic state, higher authority/status was provided by the public, not individually attained/sought after. Thus there can be no authority on Islam besides the Quranic teachings. Is this understanding correct? Any comment would be appreciated.
Thank you for your time
Who is the authority on Islam?
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noman waseem
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:19 pm
- Contact:
Who is the authority on Islam?
Noman Waseem
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Arnold Yasin Mol
Who is the authority on Islam?
Salaam Aleikum,
Yes you are correct. The Quran is revealed in Arabic. Why is this so important? Well, it was a language spoken by everybody, from the most poor to the most rich. Before the Quran's Revelation, all people who had a Scripture, be it Christians, Jews or Zoroasterians; all had a class of priests. The languages of those Scriptures were not spoken by the normal people, so the priests had total control on how to rule the Religion. In this way, the difference in classes was sustained, and equality ruled. Even up to the 16th century, was the Bible only to be found in Latin or Greek, which was only spoken by the Christian priesthood. The Christians did not have access to the Bible, and were thus completely controlled by the Church. When the Christians reformed, the Bible was translated into the common people's languages, and the Roman-Catholic Church was rejected as an authority as they were not needed anymore. Everybody could read the Bible to see what to believe and do.
When the Quran was revealed, the elite also had their own language. It was an old Arabian dialect, Nabeatan Arabic. By using this language to communicate which each other, the normal people could never interfere. There was a Language Barrier, that blocked people from having access to matters of politics or religion.
Then suddenly the Quran was revealed, and not in the elite language, not in Nabeatan Arabic. No it is revealed in:
69:40 Behold, this is indeed the revealed Word in the dialect of a noble
Messenger.
It is revelead in the common's people language. Everybody could understand it, nobody needed a a priest or a rich elite to translate it forr them, they had direct access to Allah's Word. The elite could not choose and decide for themselves what to say to people, they could not make up their own laws, because everybody could read the Quran themselves.
When everybody understood the Quran during its revelation, suddenly all people were equal, not only by body, but also by knowledge and to know what to do in society. Allah told them directly what to do, not the elite. Because of this, the people took the power and conquered half of the then known world. Normal common people with no understandings of politics created the best Political System on earth in less then 20 years.
So the elite was not needed, no priesthood, nothing. But the priesthood and elite, the Pharoahs and Haman's of the 6th century wanted to take back their control. They took up the disguise as 'uluma', people with knowledge, and they counteracted the Quran, by making up their own revelations in Muhammed's name. 200 years after the Prophet, 80% of all the Muslims were non-Arab and didn't knew the language. So again a barrier was formed between the Revelation and the common people.
But the Islamic State grew. New people were taken into Islam. To counteract this movement, many Christian priests, Jewish Rabbis and Zorasterian fire-priests became Muslim in disguise and wrote their own revelations in Muhammad's name to confuse the people. If you couldn't stop them having access to the Revelation, then you can flood them with your own made up revelations in the same language. Make it so that it doesn't replace the Original Revelation, as this is not possible, but make it so that it interferes with understanding the Original Revelation.
This time it was not a language barrier, but an Interpretation Barrier. Slowly the connection with the true purpose of the Quran was taken away. The elite took their power again and tried to connect it with the Quran. Before 200AH, the term 'Khalifah' was not used by the Islamic State rulers. They were called Imams or Amir. The elite and priesthood worked together, and they made up a new name, were the elite leaders would be called 'Khalifah' and the priests would be called 'Imams' and 'Uluma'.
In this way they could claim the titles that are used in the Quran for all the people. The whole of mankind is called a khalifah. Everybody with an outstanding charachter could be called Imam, a plumbline which can be taken as an example by everybody. Uluma was just a name for people who studied Reality, nature, history, psychology. Everything. Now suddenly it had more to do with religious study then with all fields of knowledge.
Through the concocted Hadith and the writings of the 'Uluma' and 'Imams', also meanings of the Quran were distorted or the main meanings were pushed away and replaced by lesser meanings of words.
Salat means 'to follow closely', 'attachment', 'prayer'. Suddenly it only meant 'prayer' instead of following the Divine Laws. 'Prayer' was only used 2-3 times in the Quran when using 'salat'. Now suddenly ALL 'salat' meant prayer. In this way people were disconnected from following the Divine Laws, and slowly the focus became a personal religious duty, instead of a collective striving to create the best society.
Christians disliked the idea that marriage was seen as good, that sex was seen a healthy, that the Quran rejected the supernatural or miracles. So understandings were distorted by them, Jesus was suddenly coming back and so on.
Jewish Rabbis and Persian priests did everything to make a gap between the elite and the normal people. And they had succeeded. People as 'Imam' Shafi opened the door for 'Hidden Revelation', so the priesthood could make up what they wanted.
We can see the unslaught today, where only the 'uluma' are allowed to discuss the Quran. Free thinking and research is rejected and made a sin.
The language barrier is fully running again, sustaining a barrier between the people and the Quran so they can't control themselves. Even people who can read and speak Arabic can't reach the Quran, as all meanings of words are taught to them by the priesthood writings.
In the real Islam, a real Uluma can only prove himself to you by showing his approach is more logical and better. He cannot claim the better position, he should prove it. But today's priesthood follow blindly their predecessors, and don't see that the writings they use, were made by the enemies of the Islamic System.
A lot of Uluma have a good heart and really want what is best for Islam, but they can't see they are still in control by dead enemies. They are dead for 1000 years, but still they have their firm grip on today's Uluma, who thus cannot help Islam. It is commonly accepted that only the Uluma can understand Islam, because all of those lies they follow are confusing. And if the normal people would study them deeply, they would reject them immediately.
[/b]
Yes you are correct. The Quran is revealed in Arabic. Why is this so important? Well, it was a language spoken by everybody, from the most poor to the most rich. Before the Quran's Revelation, all people who had a Scripture, be it Christians, Jews or Zoroasterians; all had a class of priests. The languages of those Scriptures were not spoken by the normal people, so the priests had total control on how to rule the Religion. In this way, the difference in classes was sustained, and equality ruled. Even up to the 16th century, was the Bible only to be found in Latin or Greek, which was only spoken by the Christian priesthood. The Christians did not have access to the Bible, and were thus completely controlled by the Church. When the Christians reformed, the Bible was translated into the common people's languages, and the Roman-Catholic Church was rejected as an authority as they were not needed anymore. Everybody could read the Bible to see what to believe and do.
When the Quran was revealed, the elite also had their own language. It was an old Arabian dialect, Nabeatan Arabic. By using this language to communicate which each other, the normal people could never interfere. There was a Language Barrier, that blocked people from having access to matters of politics or religion.
Then suddenly the Quran was revealed, and not in the elite language, not in Nabeatan Arabic. No it is revealed in:
69:40 Behold, this is indeed the revealed Word in the dialect of a noble
Messenger.
It is revelead in the common's people language. Everybody could understand it, nobody needed a a priest or a rich elite to translate it forr them, they had direct access to Allah's Word. The elite could not choose and decide for themselves what to say to people, they could not make up their own laws, because everybody could read the Quran themselves.
When everybody understood the Quran during its revelation, suddenly all people were equal, not only by body, but also by knowledge and to know what to do in society. Allah told them directly what to do, not the elite. Because of this, the people took the power and conquered half of the then known world. Normal common people with no understandings of politics created the best Political System on earth in less then 20 years.
So the elite was not needed, no priesthood, nothing. But the priesthood and elite, the Pharoahs and Haman's of the 6th century wanted to take back their control. They took up the disguise as 'uluma', people with knowledge, and they counteracted the Quran, by making up their own revelations in Muhammed's name. 200 years after the Prophet, 80% of all the Muslims were non-Arab and didn't knew the language. So again a barrier was formed between the Revelation and the common people.
But the Islamic State grew. New people were taken into Islam. To counteract this movement, many Christian priests, Jewish Rabbis and Zorasterian fire-priests became Muslim in disguise and wrote their own revelations in Muhammad's name to confuse the people. If you couldn't stop them having access to the Revelation, then you can flood them with your own made up revelations in the same language. Make it so that it doesn't replace the Original Revelation, as this is not possible, but make it so that it interferes with understanding the Original Revelation.
This time it was not a language barrier, but an Interpretation Barrier. Slowly the connection with the true purpose of the Quran was taken away. The elite took their power again and tried to connect it with the Quran. Before 200AH, the term 'Khalifah' was not used by the Islamic State rulers. They were called Imams or Amir. The elite and priesthood worked together, and they made up a new name, were the elite leaders would be called 'Khalifah' and the priests would be called 'Imams' and 'Uluma'.
In this way they could claim the titles that are used in the Quran for all the people. The whole of mankind is called a khalifah. Everybody with an outstanding charachter could be called Imam, a plumbline which can be taken as an example by everybody. Uluma was just a name for people who studied Reality, nature, history, psychology. Everything. Now suddenly it had more to do with religious study then with all fields of knowledge.
Through the concocted Hadith and the writings of the 'Uluma' and 'Imams', also meanings of the Quran were distorted or the main meanings were pushed away and replaced by lesser meanings of words.
Salat means 'to follow closely', 'attachment', 'prayer'. Suddenly it only meant 'prayer' instead of following the Divine Laws. 'Prayer' was only used 2-3 times in the Quran when using 'salat'. Now suddenly ALL 'salat' meant prayer. In this way people were disconnected from following the Divine Laws, and slowly the focus became a personal religious duty, instead of a collective striving to create the best society.
Christians disliked the idea that marriage was seen as good, that sex was seen a healthy, that the Quran rejected the supernatural or miracles. So understandings were distorted by them, Jesus was suddenly coming back and so on.
Jewish Rabbis and Persian priests did everything to make a gap between the elite and the normal people. And they had succeeded. People as 'Imam' Shafi opened the door for 'Hidden Revelation', so the priesthood could make up what they wanted.
We can see the unslaught today, where only the 'uluma' are allowed to discuss the Quran. Free thinking and research is rejected and made a sin.
The language barrier is fully running again, sustaining a barrier between the people and the Quran so they can't control themselves. Even people who can read and speak Arabic can't reach the Quran, as all meanings of words are taught to them by the priesthood writings.
In the real Islam, a real Uluma can only prove himself to you by showing his approach is more logical and better. He cannot claim the better position, he should prove it. But today's priesthood follow blindly their predecessors, and don't see that the writings they use, were made by the enemies of the Islamic System.
A lot of Uluma have a good heart and really want what is best for Islam, but they can't see they are still in control by dead enemies. They are dead for 1000 years, but still they have their firm grip on today's Uluma, who thus cannot help Islam. It is commonly accepted that only the Uluma can understand Islam, because all of those lies they follow are confusing. And if the normal people would study them deeply, they would reject them immediately.
[/b]
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noman waseem
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:19 pm
- Contact:
Who is the authority on Islam?
Salam Aleikum Arnold,
Truly, you cease to amaze me by the wealth of knowledge in your possession; a beautiful reply indeed. To answer your question, the reason I asked was because I am creating a website for business reasons and thought that it might be a good idea to add a forum in which Islam could be discussed.
However, if my website does get traffic, I assume that it will largely be westerners. As described in my original post, it would be very difficult for any westerner to even read anything on the forum in light of what they read about Islam through their sources of news. The 'authority' issue is one of the prime reasons for this difficulty. To read something so vastly different from what they are used to, they would require a good reason to not consider what they're reading to be coming from some 'extremist'. So I figured if indeed I decide to put this forum up, it would be a good idea to add a section explaining this authority issue.
Thank you for your time
Truly, you cease to amaze me by the wealth of knowledge in your possession; a beautiful reply indeed. To answer your question, the reason I asked was because I am creating a website for business reasons and thought that it might be a good idea to add a forum in which Islam could be discussed.
However, if my website does get traffic, I assume that it will largely be westerners. As described in my original post, it would be very difficult for any westerner to even read anything on the forum in light of what they read about Islam through their sources of news. The 'authority' issue is one of the prime reasons for this difficulty. To read something so vastly different from what they are used to, they would require a good reason to not consider what they're reading to be coming from some 'extremist'. So I figured if indeed I decide to put this forum up, it would be a good idea to add a section explaining this authority issue.
Thank you for your time
Noman Waseem
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shahalam66
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:05 pm
- Contact:
Who is the authority on Islam?
So Mr. Waseem,
Next time if some one asks you 'what makes you authority on authority on Islam', what would you respond? But try never obsess yourself with the word 'authority' as this is totally a misplaced point for the truth seeker.
Human authority teaches us only one thing. That is anger and subsequently our own security rather than collective human progress. In the final conclusion watch all the sectarian rife around us. This is what ulemas and imams did not learn in the history.
It is only with our highest thoughts and clearest words that we can bring grandest feeling and a better life for all of us. Truth clears only when we learn to think in terms of highest good that we have been ordered.
Then nobody will clarify about your authority. You do not even need to put up your forum because you have nothing to clarify.
You live in NJ, are you a westerner or easterner. What is the truth?
Next time if some one asks you 'what makes you authority on authority on Islam', what would you respond? But try never obsess yourself with the word 'authority' as this is totally a misplaced point for the truth seeker.
Human authority teaches us only one thing. That is anger and subsequently our own security rather than collective human progress. In the final conclusion watch all the sectarian rife around us. This is what ulemas and imams did not learn in the history.
It is only with our highest thoughts and clearest words that we can bring grandest feeling and a better life for all of us. Truth clears only when we learn to think in terms of highest good that we have been ordered.
Then nobody will clarify about your authority. You do not even need to put up your forum because you have nothing to clarify.
You live in NJ, are you a westerner or easterner. What is the truth?
shahalam
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noman waseem
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:19 pm
- Contact:
Who is the authority on Islam?
Salam Aleikum Brother,
I had no particular interest in the concept of authority in Islam until I saw good arguments for Islam go to waste simply because people saw no authority in their claim. I am not obsessed with this concept, but a response is never-the-less needed.
I’m not entirely certain about what you mean by ‘clarify’, however my intention by putting up the forum is nothing grand or self-fulfilling. It is merely to expose others to the true message of the Quran. Two beacons are better than one.
I was fully aware of the fact that I am living in the western world and referring to people unlike me as westerners. I assumed that the reader would understand by context that by “westerner” I was referring to “a westerner who has not been exposed to the true message of Islam”.
Well, if you’re really interested, here’s what I have so far (It is not done and will certainly go through further revision):
What is Islam?
On the basis of religion, like Christianity and Judaism, Islam is an “Abrahamic” religion. In general, this means that the great, well known people of these religions can trace themselves back to Abraham. Like Christianity and Judaism, Islam is a monotheistic religion. In general, this of course means that the adherents of all three religions believe in one God. Like Christianity and Judaism, Islam has a holy book; it is called the Quran. Islam means submission to God and was founded about 1400 years ago and is thus the youngest of these religions. A Muslim is an adherent of Islam and believes Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) to be the last messenger sent by God.
No, but really, what is Islam? Well, I could tell you that its teachings come from the final unadulterated word of God, the Lord of the Humanity. I could tell you that Islam isn’t really a religion at all; rather it is the Deen or the perfect System of Life. I could tell you that the entirety of Islam is entirely and perfectly defined from within the Quran and requires no outside references for elaboration. I could tell you that within the Quran are verses that contain such profound scientific knowledge that they could not be verified by science until very recently (as in a couple of years ago). I could tell you that the State of Islam that existed from around 1400 years on up a couple of centuries is a lost jewel of western history. I could tell you that the European renaissance that took place a bit later was ignited by the contact of Europeans with the Muslims of the time. I could tell you that the Bible, Gospel and Torah were all Holy books authored by the same God that authored the Quran. I could tell you that there is an entire chapter in the Quran that talks about women’s rights. I could tell you that the Quran specifically states that killing a single innocent human is tantamount to killing all of humanity. I could furthermore tell you that the Quran also very clearly states that terrorizing/torturing is worse than killing. I could even tell you that the vast majority of the billion or so “Muslim’s” on this planet are not following Islam at all, but rather the title of Islam has been hijacked by a strange religion referred by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed of www.ourbeacon.com as N2I or Number Two Islam.
I could tell you all these things, but then the respected reader would be more than obliged to ask: “What makes you such an authority on Islam?”. The reason I am so certain of this is that I have seen many such arguments shot down by this very question. Even if the person presenting the argument rebounds with a strong defense, it just always seems to be a case of too little too late. Another good question is: “Why are you trying to argue in the first place? Are you trying to convert us or something?”. The Quran itself states very clearly that there is no coercion in religion. Yes, this means that the similar edict of the US Constitution (freedom of religion) was a bit more than a millennium late in coming. And indeed, it was wholly practiced in the Islamic State. I can assure the respected reader, I have no intention of trying to convert anyone.
Never-the-less, the big question remains; what does make me such an authority on Islam? Remember I said that someone provided a good counter argument to this? He said something along the lines of the following: “I’m not trying to be nor want to be an authority on Islam; I’m just trying to spread awareness”. While I agree with his reasoning, let me provide the respected reader a more straightforward approach if possible: I’m not an authority on Islam. In fact, there is no such thing as an “authority” on Islam insofar as it refers to a human being or any human-made object (including books). Logically speaking and in light of Quranic teachings, the very concept of an authority on Islam is redundant and ultimately useless since God is the ultimate authority on Islam. Since God isn’t physically among us, we are expected to make the Quranic teachings the direct authority of our behavior and seek of His bounty.
So, again in light of Quranic teachings, it is meaningless for any human to seek authority in the Islamic sphere since all authority belongs to none other than Allah, the Arabic word used to reference God.
But try never obsess yourself with the word 'authority' as this is totally a misplaced point for the truth seeker.
I had no particular interest in the concept of authority in Islam until I saw good arguments for Islam go to waste simply because people saw no authority in their claim. I am not obsessed with this concept, but a response is never-the-less needed.
”shahalam66” wrote: You do not even need to put up your forum because you have nothing to clarify.
I’m not entirely certain about what you mean by ‘clarify’, however my intention by putting up the forum is nothing grand or self-fulfilling. It is merely to expose others to the true message of the Quran. Two beacons are better than one.
”shahalam66” wrote: You live in NJ, are you a westerner or easterner. What is the truth?
I was fully aware of the fact that I am living in the western world and referring to people unlike me as westerners. I assumed that the reader would understand by context that by “westerner” I was referring to “a westerner who has not been exposed to the true message of Islam”.
”shahalam66” wrote: Next time if some one asks you 'what makes you authority on authority on Islam', what would you respond?
Well, if you’re really interested, here’s what I have so far (It is not done and will certainly go through further revision):
What is Islam?
On the basis of religion, like Christianity and Judaism, Islam is an “Abrahamic” religion. In general, this means that the great, well known people of these religions can trace themselves back to Abraham. Like Christianity and Judaism, Islam is a monotheistic religion. In general, this of course means that the adherents of all three religions believe in one God. Like Christianity and Judaism, Islam has a holy book; it is called the Quran. Islam means submission to God and was founded about 1400 years ago and is thus the youngest of these religions. A Muslim is an adherent of Islam and believes Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) to be the last messenger sent by God.
No, but really, what is Islam? Well, I could tell you that its teachings come from the final unadulterated word of God, the Lord of the Humanity. I could tell you that Islam isn’t really a religion at all; rather it is the Deen or the perfect System of Life. I could tell you that the entirety of Islam is entirely and perfectly defined from within the Quran and requires no outside references for elaboration. I could tell you that within the Quran are verses that contain such profound scientific knowledge that they could not be verified by science until very recently (as in a couple of years ago). I could tell you that the State of Islam that existed from around 1400 years on up a couple of centuries is a lost jewel of western history. I could tell you that the European renaissance that took place a bit later was ignited by the contact of Europeans with the Muslims of the time. I could tell you that the Bible, Gospel and Torah were all Holy books authored by the same God that authored the Quran. I could tell you that there is an entire chapter in the Quran that talks about women’s rights. I could tell you that the Quran specifically states that killing a single innocent human is tantamount to killing all of humanity. I could furthermore tell you that the Quran also very clearly states that terrorizing/torturing is worse than killing. I could even tell you that the vast majority of the billion or so “Muslim’s” on this planet are not following Islam at all, but rather the title of Islam has been hijacked by a strange religion referred by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed of www.ourbeacon.com as N2I or Number Two Islam.
I could tell you all these things, but then the respected reader would be more than obliged to ask: “What makes you such an authority on Islam?”. The reason I am so certain of this is that I have seen many such arguments shot down by this very question. Even if the person presenting the argument rebounds with a strong defense, it just always seems to be a case of too little too late. Another good question is: “Why are you trying to argue in the first place? Are you trying to convert us or something?”. The Quran itself states very clearly that there is no coercion in religion. Yes, this means that the similar edict of the US Constitution (freedom of religion) was a bit more than a millennium late in coming. And indeed, it was wholly practiced in the Islamic State. I can assure the respected reader, I have no intention of trying to convert anyone.
Never-the-less, the big question remains; what does make me such an authority on Islam? Remember I said that someone provided a good counter argument to this? He said something along the lines of the following: “I’m not trying to be nor want to be an authority on Islam; I’m just trying to spread awareness”. While I agree with his reasoning, let me provide the respected reader a more straightforward approach if possible: I’m not an authority on Islam. In fact, there is no such thing as an “authority” on Islam insofar as it refers to a human being or any human-made object (including books). Logically speaking and in light of Quranic teachings, the very concept of an authority on Islam is redundant and ultimately useless since God is the ultimate authority on Islam. Since God isn’t physically among us, we are expected to make the Quranic teachings the direct authority of our behavior and seek of His bounty.
So, again in light of Quranic teachings, it is meaningless for any human to seek authority in the Islamic sphere since all authority belongs to none other than Allah, the Arabic word used to reference God.
Noman Waseem